'Grats to all of the winners.
That was tight,though.

Congrats to all the winners.

I'm so glad Tarboy won. It was by far the best movie of the year. And User of the Year actually really surprised me. But congratulations to all the winners, it's a great honor.

Congrats to all the winners. Your great work really helps keep us busy and entertained.

You can tell that the admins care about NG's audio community from their pick for musician of the year.

Congratulations to all the winners!

Already saw it, but yes. He did a good job. And I'm happy for all of the winners.

At 5/1/10 02:35 PM, RoboJesus wrote: They're all failures in my eyes.

HAHA wooooow, that made me laugh....you sound like my uncle...

Bullshit, Time Fcuk was best game. Hell, I think miami shark would beat level up, that mediocre piece of shit game.

I sure enjoy Level Up.

Good stuff, Level Up was sweet, probably my favourite this year, not sure why people disliking it winning.

Here to another good year, hope there's more games with good stories to them too.

At 5/2/10 05:32 AM, Rig wrote: You can tell that the admins care about NG's audio community from their pick for musician of the year.

Yes, you speak for all of our opinions. I can tell you that I do care about the vast majority of the audio community, but care less for the minority of it who are constantly negative about everything that happens, including you.

The behaviour of some of the audio people in the lounge thread is just despicable, and those of you who have all made such harsh comments should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

yay to all the winners! but when do you think we're gonna go back to the regular Ng instead of Pico? I mean, it's only been 3 days, but still.

Alright, I'll make my post in here seeing as how I'm probably the root cause of 90% of the complaints coming out of the audio forum. First off, you guys don't give half a flying shit about the audio portal. We had a thread a while back over who really deserved that award and you'll notice that hania wasn't mentioned once.

Fuck it, nathanallenpinard was recently featured in disneys frog princess and he still gets close to nothing for having a professional resume.

You guys at newgrounds may have worked your asses off to make an audio portal but you guys do nothing to try and fix it.

Congrats to all the winners.

Congrats to the winners!!

How Tarboy is considered a better flash work than Last of the Dashkin is beyond me. Kinda sad really, because it's not even close to being as good. The only reason it won is because Adam Phillips won the award before, and god forbid someone win it more than once.

As for the audio side of things being discussed above, I find it really sad an admin is calling out Rig for being the "negative" part of the community. If you spent more than 5 minutes in the audio portal you'd realize he is one of the few people there that makes the audio portal function, even in it's less than perfect system.

It's really a waste to give the award to Hania. She hasn't spent more than 5 minutes with the community, and most of her work is simply vocals. It is just really discouraging that the award goes to someone who just happened to get their music in a popular flash. Because that really doesn't define the musician of the year. They should change the name of the award to "Audio contribution of the year" if this is how it's going to be judged. Because truth be told, Hania is far from deserving of the title "Musician of the Year."

It's not that the audio community wishes to be negative all the time. But the award wasn't even close to being representative of the best musician last year. And if this wasn't so, then the entire audio community wouldn't be all bent out of shape over it.

So really, calling out Rig is really stupid. Congrats, you are an admin and your opinions matter more than the rest of us. No need to rub it in by being a dick on top of that to the few people that are actually trying to make the audio portal better. (Such as Rig) Which is far more than can be said for the admins.

At 5/2/10 01:18 PM, liljim wrote:

At 5/2/10 05:32 AM, Rig wrote: You can tell that the admins care about NG's audio community from their pick for musician of the year.

Yes, you speak for all of our opinions. I can tell you that I do care about the vast majority of the audio community, but care less for the minority of it who are constantly negative about everything that happens, including you.

The behaviour of some of the audio people in the lounge thread is just despicable, and those of you who have all made such harsh comments should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

I know you're an admin and all and I have shit load of respect for you. But I have to say that you are a bit wrong. While Rig did come off a bit negative, he has a point you know. I'm sure everyone at NG care about the audio portal, but you have to listen a bit to the community. And Rig is part of that community. I know you can't change your picks now, but at least don't act like a dick when someone else expresses their opinion on the matter.

At 5/2/10 05:01 PM, citricsquid wrote:

At 5/2/10 04:38 PM, Gravey wrote:

I preferred Tarboy. Maybe this is a concept that you can't handle and I apologise to you if it is, but the quality of a submission is not based on the time it took to create, the skill of the creator and/or the length of it.

Fair enough. But I don't see how it is harmful to say I preferred Last of the Dashkin. It doesn't mean I don't understand the fact that the award shouldn't go to the flash that took the longest to create, it just means I prefer Last of the Dashkin. In my opinion it was far superior. No reason to attack me personally. Which you seem to be doing in this entire response.

As for the audio side of things being discussed above, I find it really sad an admin is calling out Rig for being the "negative" part of the community. If you spent more than 5 minutes in the audio portal you'd realize he is one of the few people there that makes the audio portal function, even in it's less than perfect system.

I'm pretty sure liljim expressed disdain towards the attitudes presented by participants in the threads in the audio forum, not to those people specifically.

He flat out called out Rig and said he was a part of the negative side of the audio community. That is unacceptable considering Rig is one of, if not the most consistent audio mod. If not for Rig, I'm not sure how the audio portal would even survive to be honest. The other audio mods are great, but Rig is the one that really helps to keep things under control. And to say he is a part of the negative audio community is far from acceptable from an admin.

Because truth be told, Hania is far from deserving of the title "Musician of the Year."

I totally agree IF the criteria is "The person who contributed the most to the community" but has the criteria been defined anywhere? I don't think it has. How can you assume that "musician of the year" does account for community contributions and isn't solely based on their musical contributions? Did rig contribute more than hania to the audio community here last year? of course, was the music that he created and how it was used better than hania? that's purely opinion.

The award is not given to the person who writes the most high quality submission on Newgrounds. It goes to whoever gets their music in the most popular flash. Which is part of why the audio community is so upset. We have people who write music for Disney, so how would someone like Hania even have a chance?

This went to her because she had a song or two in very popular flash submissions. So to be honest, the award should be called "Best audio contribution in a flash." This is not a put down from me, but just an honest assessment. I have no problem with giving out this sort of award, but to do so and say it went to the "Musician of the year" is disingenuous.

I do believe that the fact her music was used in a popular flash should count towards the final selection. But in this case it was the only criteria used. And that is not a true representation of who was the "Musician of the year" in the audio portal. Just who got lucky enough to land the best flash job.

To complain when you don't know what the award is for is silly. A musician to me is someone who creates music, someone who contributes to the community is entirely different. Maybe save your complaints for when you know what the award was for and whether or not it's supposed to account for community contributions.

I think I just showed I have a knowledge on what the award is for. And not only that, I think I labeled it more correctly than those giving it out. Don't attack me just because I am giving an opinion with a little bit of insight to back it up. I'm not ranting, nor raving. Just stating some facts and logical assumptions on what I've seen.

Also, I never said that the person who contributes most to the audio community should win the award. But at the same time, it should be put into a little bit of consideration because the truth be told you can only become a better musician by immersing yourself within a community of other musicians. And by doing so you can even better show your talents.

pro-tip: If you want to be taken seriously, don't be a dick about it. You'll be lucky if liljim replies to you, not because his opinion is any more important than yours, but because you approached that with the worst possible attitude. If you want the audio community to be taken seriously why don't you keep your panties untwisted and pose your complaints/criticisms to the administration privately and help them understand why it's an issue for you before you start moaning like a bitch in public?

Pro-tip: Don't use the phrase "pro-tip" when attempting to "drop knowledge" on someone's ass. It makes you look arrogant and foolish.

As for a response to your last paragraph. I'm not sure why you are attacking me personally. I'm not being a dick. And I'm not expecting a reply from the omnipotent liljim, because he is all powerful and sees all obviously according to you. It would definitely be the honor of my life if he replied without a doubt.

Pull your lips off his dick, you might find the taste of clean air refreshing.

I did not approach this with the worst possible attitude. I said that liljim calling Rig the negative part of the audio community a sad thing because Rig is one of the guys that makes the audio portal work in a semi-productive fashion. Also, I stand by my points made about how the award is not really given to the "Musician of the year", but rather to the artist who gets their music in the most popular flash submissions.

As for sending criticisms in a private message, liljim didn't send his criticism of Rig in a private forum. He let the entire site see that he thinks Rig is a negative part of the audio community. And all Rig said was what every single person in the audio community is thinking. If pms to the admins got anything resolved, then this entire situation wouldn't have even come to fruition. Don't make me out to be some horrible bad guy. I posted an opinion, backed up with a logical reasoning for my beliefs. Attacking me personally like you did above is shameful, and really just kinda proves how little the audio community is respected.

I'm kind of disappointed William and Sly wasn't mentioned. But those 2 deserved to win. Awkward top 5 lists though.

At 5/2/10 06:02 PM, Chronamut wrote: As for the reactions from the audio community I understand their anger, confusion and frustration, but to publicly bash hania like that is like what kanye west did to carrie underwood..

I hope I didn't come across as this sort of person. My intent wasn't to bash Hania herself, but really just to sort of explain why it is a lot of the audio community feels the way they do. And also to show how the award is either misrepresented in title, or was given to someone who doesn't fit the title currently given. Because so far it seems like a lot of the audio community has been responding through emotions, and its causing people to think we are all just a bunch of slobbering whiny children.

I am still kind of bothered by an admin saying our hardest working audio mod is a negative influence on the audio community though. Considering the forums would fail entirely without the mods that an admin would either bite his tongue, or say something in private.

Ever since 2007: The staff stopped giving two shits about the audio portal and the COMMUNITY.

Ever since 2010: I would just let the audio forum, and the audio portal get out of control. I hope other people such as Rig, Gravey, nathan, etc would take this step.. and show that the staff really needs this community....

At 5/2/10 05:47 PM, Gravey wrote: He flat out called out Rig and said he was a part of the negative side of the audio community. That is unacceptable considering Rig is one of, if not the most consistent audio mod. If not for Rig, I'm not sure how the audio portal would even survive to be honest. The other audio mods are great, but Rig is the one that really helps to keep things under control. And to say he is a part of the negative audio community is far from acceptable from an admin.

Let's see:

"Although a Hania song bumped off one of the best songs on the portal for some reason, in the middle of the week. It must've been an admin. THEY'RE the ones who don't care."

That is correct, we regularly go into the database and alter scores. Actually, no, we don't. Ever.

"Yeah, I see your point there. Maestrorage is the only winner who fits the criteria so far - work used in popular flash, AND active in the community. The admins really don't pay attention to the community.

Seriously, they don't. Most of them hate posting."

Wait, you're speaking on my behalf, now?

"They put up a great pretense of us being equal, but behind the scenes, they just don't care."

"You can tell that the admins care about NG's audio community from their pick for musician of the year."

"Hey Admins. You're more than just flash now. You're a damn multimedia conglomerate. Audio artists have as much legitimacy - we shouldn't have to be featured in every popular flash in order to be recognized for what we bring to the musical community."

Can you tell me where the positivity is in any of those quotes, Gravey? I'd love to know.

I'd also like to know where these Private messages to me on this matter, instead of public forum posts, have gotten to.

I also saw a post by someone who wrote something along the lines of, "Don't they give Oscars out to the same person more than once?"

Yes, they do. But the ones who lose out to those awards don't bitch and cry about it afterwards, they congratulate the winner and then move on.

THAT kind of behaviour pisses me off, and that's what I'm getting at. If you disagree with something, fine. Keep it to yourself, though, rather than bashing your supposedly fellow audio artists in public.... and if you really need to express your opinion on the matter publicly, don't be surprised when others reply.

At 5/2/10 06:32 PM, liljim wrote:

Let's see:

"Although a Hania song bumped off one of the best songs on the portal for some reason, in the middle of the week. It must've been an admin. THEY'RE the ones who don't care."

That is correct, we regularly go into the database and alter scores. Actually, no, we don't. Ever.

"Yeah, I see your point there. Maestrorage is the only winner who fits the criteria so far - work used in popular flash, AND active in the community. The admins really don't pay attention to the community.

Seriously, they don't. Most of them hate posting."

Wait, you're speaking on my behalf, now?

"They put up a great pretense of us being equal, but behind the scenes, they just don't care."

"You can tell that the admins care about NG's audio community from their pick for musician of the year."

"Hey Admins. You're more than just flash now. You're a damn multimedia conglomerate. Audio artists have as much legitimacy - we shouldn't have to be featured in every popular flash in order to be recognized for what we bring to the musical community."

Can you tell me where the positivity is in any of those quotes, Gravey? I'd love to know.

I'd also like to know where these Private messages to me on this matter, instead of public forum posts, have gotten to.

I also saw a post by someone who wrote something along the lines of, "Don't they give Oscars out to the same person more than once?"

Yes, they do. But the ones who lose out to those awards don't bitch and cry about it afterwards, they congratulate the winner and then move on.

THAT kind of behaviour pisses me off, and that's what I'm getting at. If you disagree with something, fine. Keep it to yourself, though, rather than bashing your supposedly fellow audio artists in public.... and if you really need to express your opinion on the matter publicly, don't be surprised when others reply.

So this means that a high end administrator should publicly call someone out? I've worked in a lot of places, and one thing I've learned is the higher up in the chain you are the more is expected of you. And with that comes the knowledge that just because someone might be disgruntled doesn't mean you call them out in public. If an executive called out a manager in his firm every time he got wind of someone saying something negative then that company wouldn't last long because everyone would quit.

Which kinda is telling really, because it seems like there are less and less audio mods doing more and more work. You'd think that maybe someone who is in your position would simply say privately to someone like Rig "Your opinion is valued, but you crossed the line." I can guarantee anyone that Rig does far more good than bad in the audio portal. And to be honest, other than Sorohanro I can't think of anyone who is possibly more helpful to everyone.

I can understand you being upset with criticism coming, but at the same time I would think the admins would hold themselves to a higher standard than this. I can't ever think of a time when an owner of a company in front of an entire floor of workers just called out a member of management for being critical of a process that an entire branch of the company was having an issue with.

I still think it is less than professional, especially considering all the good Rig does for this site FOR FREE.

I'll answer your questions when you answer mine (there's only one there).

Maybe people will lesser complaining if there were more expanded categories? (Best animation, best story telling, best voice acting, best gameplay, best visuals, best characters, best contributor, best of genres etc.) The only problem is that Newgrounds is NOT the Oscars, and they do not have the time or money to have more then 4 trophies per year.

At 5/2/10 06:46 PM, liljim wrote: I'll answer your questions when you answer mine (there's only one there).

Sorry....I thought it was a rhetorical question. :-/

"Can you tell me where the positivity is in any of those quotes, Gravey? I'd love to know."

I'm not saying his remarks were positive in nature. I agree there have been a lot of bad ways the audio community have voiced their opinions, even Rig himself. But at the same time I think the work audio mods do is greatly overlooked. My point is simply this, I think that looking at Newgrounds as a business, because that is what it is. Your actions are very unfitting for someone in your station, as are Rigs.

But at the same time, when you are a high ranking officer in a company, which an admin such as yourself is, that you can't simply accuse someone of being a negative part of the audio community because he is angry about one issue. Especially when the entire community itself is angry about the issue.

Whether it makes it right or not, is irrelevant. Rig probably could have been less demonstrative with his phrasing, but at the same time I think that the situation should have been decided privately. Because like I said, officers in companies do not speak out negatively about their managers. Because when they do its a slippery slope to losing the faith and backing of those who work for them. And when you consider the lack of necessary audio mods as it is, and the fact they don't get paid. I would think that maybe an admin might take a moment, compose himself, and simply realize that disgruntled employees like this come about all the time in businesses.

If there is one thing I've learned is that the higher up in a system you are, the more is expected of you. And I found it tremendously disappointing to hear you call Rig a negative impact on the community. I've seen him do a lot of good work in the audio community here on Newgrounds, and to judge him based on one bad judgment call in front of the entire site like this is simply not fair nor savvy as a businessman.

Does that make sense?

At 5/2/10 06:55 PM, Gravey wrote: Sorry....I thought it was a rhetorical question. :-/

No problem.

Listen, I don't want to get annoyed at people who submit to the site (and I hate myself for it when I do), or help with the site (as in Rig's case).

What frustrates me is when they go ahead and post comments about us that do not reflect what we do on a daily basis, like they know our agenda, or what we're thinking, or whatever.

*I* don't even know what I'm thinking most of the time, it's unlikely that anyone else is going to know what I am thinking.

I don't follow the Bible, but I do believe in some of the principles set out in it, the main one of which is this:

"Do to others as you would have them do to you."

EVERY time I see a complaint in the audio portal forums, it's usually from someone who has gotten a bunch of "zero bombers" on their submission.

And the SAME people who tend to complain about this sort of thing then go and make these comments about the musician of the year, or for being down-voted. I find that disgusting, but maybe that's just me.

Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

At 5/2/10 06:32 PM, liljim wrote: THAT kind of behaviour pisses me off, and that's what I'm getting at. If you disagree with something, fine. Keep it to yourself, though, rather than bashing your supposedly fellow audio artists in public.... and if you really need to express your opinion on the matter publicly, don't be surprised when others reply.

You're right. My opinions on the choices of this award ceremony have been overwhelmingly negative on the musician side. I congratulate the winners of the other awards, wish them the best, etc. But how can you administrate a public forum, where all opinions are supposedly welcome, and expect those who disagree with the administration to keep silent?

Right, I'm a mod. I'll stick up for my fellow moderators when they make tough decisions, and keep my opinions discussed behind closed doors. This, however, is a public award ceremony, and frankly, you've gotta be prepared for the negative comments. My opinions come not from myself as a mod, but from myself as a musician and contributor to the community. I'm sorry for being rude previously, but I'm not going to sit here and keep my opinion to myself. And I'm not the only one with that opinion.

The first musician award made everyone happy - Maestrorage was a pillar in the audio community and also featured in tons of great flashes. And I like how he was chosen: you guys asked us. I don't think I deserved the reward at all for last year. But hey, I like to think that I have some experience in telling who's most deserving of this musician award after three years of devotion to the audio portal. Production-wise, Hania's above average, but by no means the best NG had to offer last year.

And thanks for sticking up for me, Gravey, but honestly, I've been slowly losing interest in the audio side of NG for some time now. There's no more reward in approving people who turn around and submit copyrighted tracks as soon as they're approved. It's a broken system and the staff have constantly pushed the fixes to the backburner. Always saying "yeah there'll be more tools later this year," but with nothing to show for it when the time comes.

I'm posting my problems here because we audio mods have been hounding you for years without any change. I do this for the love of it, but it's really hard to enjoy what you do when you don't have the support of those who chose you for the job.

At 5/2/10 07:11 PM, liljim wrote:

Logic

Fair enough. I'm not trying to bash the system or hate on everyone who makes decisions. I can see how a lot of people see the whining in then audio forum, its greatly drawn out and overly obnoxious at times. But there are a lot of good ideas within the forums on fixing the problems a lot of the audio community is often upset over.

I just think it would be nice for us to know that someone somewhere is actually listening to something we are saying. Because I know a large portion of the audio community feels like the admins have totally forgotten about us. Whether its true or not isn't as important of the perception of whether it is or isn't.

It's actually a nice surprise to see an admin actually explain himself in a situation like this. I completely posted under the idea that this would maybe get read, and definitely not answered. And then I would be flamed by everyone else reading the thread. So I appreciate that you took the time to at least respond.

I guess to just sorta summarize, the audio community does feel greatly neglected. Whether we are asking too much or not I guess is up for you guys to decide. But it would be nice to have a little bit of input on the only award our community is even associated with. I think that if the admins just gave the impression that they at least saw and read our opinions it would be a great step in the right direction.

Just a little love is all we ask my fine sir. Just a little love. ;-)