so right now I'm working on a piece that has a bit of a higher quality standard than I'm used to and I need to cleanup some of my work a bit..
The only issue I'm really having is the cleanness of my animation. All of the frame-by-frame animation in it looks really fluid but the actual outlines for the characters are looking kinda wobbly. Does anyone have any good methods or tips to fix this??
Thanks! :)
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At 3/1/13 12:16 AM, Trampzy wrote: so right now I'm working on a piece that has a bit of a higher quality standard than I'm used to and I need to cleanup some of my work a bit..
The only issue I'm really having is the cleanness of my animation. All of the frame-by-frame animation in it looks really fluid but the actual outlines for the characters are looking kinda wobbly. Does anyone have any good methods or tips to fix this??
Thanks! :)
When lines look wiggly during animation this is called "boiling", just for future reference. It tends to be when you havent watched your frames closely enough when animating your inbetweens, or you animated straight forward animation, which can also be a result of this.
Show us a little example if you can so we can give you some advice.
boiling isn't necessarily a bad thing, its a preference. i for one, hate it lol.
when you go back in to clean up your lines, try moving parts that can be moved, not re-drawing them. only drawing and redrawing the parts that you absolutely have to give a much better end product and better character continuity
At 3/1/13 09:20 AM, Max-Vador wrote: boiling isn't necessarily a bad thing, its a preference. i for one, hate it lol.
when you go back in to clean up your lines, try moving parts that can be moved, not re-drawing them. only drawing and redrawing the parts that you absolutely have to give a much better end product and better character continuity
I think boiling can look good too. If intentional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PONvX6LmAPo
However, if unintentional it can bring your animation down alot. My advice is (until i see it - if i see it). locate your key poses. Which will be the most extreme pose of your character/object. Then onion skin inbetween them, check the distance between them and make sure your lines are located inbetween them.
Be aware, drawing in the exact centre of these frames when inbetweening will erase any use of easing you may want to create from one pose to another.
Get me? :)
whoops, I should've specified: I'm not new to animation at all, I've been doing it on and off for 10 years and I know how to animate frame-by-frame properly.. It's this one sequence that is giving me trouble: http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/cc3b526e2d8bf6abdcf9ddf5 04fde3b0
Due to the nature of the body movement, it makes it a bit tricky to do this neatly and I can't exactly do dragging outlines at that speed :\
There is a way I could redo the whole thing but turning half of it into MTs.. but it just wouldn't be the same. So I really would like to be able to just clean it up.
and if it helps at all, the character that's going in to that scene generally has over dramatic soap-opera like movements.
Good news is though, the rest of the animations in the piece are lookin pretty good :P
At 3/2/13 09:06 AM, Trampzy wrote: whoops, I should've specified: I'm not new to animation at all, I've been doing it on and off for 10 years and I know how to animate frame-by-frame properly.. It's this one sequence that is giving me trouble: http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/cc3b526e2d8bf6abdcf9ddf5 04fde3b0
Ah good stuff! So I've decided to help you as much as I can without making a video breakdown, I've went detailed though so you understand the concept, not just to fix this, but to help you in all future projects and movement in general. Don't take any of this to heart and as an attack, we all learn, and all make mistakes. So there's nothing personal in it.
The problems you have right now is to do with multiple issues. This is a combination of boiling, arcs and back and forward jolting.
You said you have had some experience, so i'll take it you understand my terminology. To make this easy, you should be drawing one initial keypose, then last keypose and then do a middle key pose. Between these key poses before touching the inbetweens, you'll be able to create an arc. Which is a massive issue in your animation. Ive drew two arcs right now. The blue line is the arc you took, the white line is the arc you should have drawn before you created any inbetween frames. Ive only tracked the tip of the hand, and the elbow. But ideally for a motion like this, and a twist, you should have also tracked, the head, chin, the rear arm and the shoulder. Because you need to make sure that your character keeps it's mass, but while doing so creates a fluid motion for our eyes. Without a clear arc, it will look very jolted. On the white line i've added suggested timing marks. These would be different depending on the speed needed. But this is where the easing should be apparent, in your tickmarks along your curve. Accelerating and decelerating is very important. At the current state of your shot, your character lacks correct spacing of tick marks along the curve. Graphs and arcs are there to help you, so draw them in when doing a complex movement, professionals take the time, and it makes a massive difference instead of "eyeballing! it.
When your lines when moving at high frame rates (24/30 etc) the slightest inconsistency between these frames is going to cause a problem. Which is why slow movement could be double framed. However, if choppy go back and add that inbetween. Some lines are going forward, forward and then back but then suddenly go forward. This will cause massive visual problems. Because our eye is expecting for that line to smoothly transition from one position to the next, not to jump forward and back then forward again. This is also because your characters mass alters throughout this shot.
You have to be aware of your characters mass, in particular in this case the arm as you have staged this shot making us particularly watch it. The arm however increases in some frames, and decreases in others. Due to this your lines will expand in and out, making your spacing between drawings massively different, reducing the flow of expectancy.
As an artist/animator though visuals always help explain this sort of thing. So ive converted and imported your shot (which was a bitch, due to it was in an MC that flattened on import) :P. Ive reduced it to 1 frame per second, and made the animation movie clips, so you should be able to download it or import it, or just watch it and pause as ive made them all graphics. Up to you. So yeah, Ive done two arc/curve examples which track your tip of your hand. Then your elbow. The next clip shows a few examples of the mass issues, boiling and easing. Some things to watch out for.
http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/744f73399f092b14bac2dd31 465bd6db
If you ever have a problem and think how should the arcs be? or how should the movement be, get yourself a great webcam or use a phone, and record yourself. Watch it frame by frame - quicktime player lets you. Keep in mind. A professionally animated shot will usually have 20% of it's time purely on research. If i take 2 weeks to animate a shot. Then I've worked 2 full days, (which is like 18hours, 9 hours a day) purely on researching the movement so when it comes to me having to do it, most of the theory of movement and thumb-nailing and positioning is already down on concept.
So! Hope this helps you (and hopefully a few others)!
Good luck!
At 3/3/13 09:14 AM, PeterSatera wrote: ...
oh my god thankyou. I don't think I've ever learned something so helpful in so few words! This thing with the arcs is probably been the one sole thing missing from my animation process because I drew all my key poses, (first, last, middle, then the middles of those, fill in etc) but then like you said, I was just completely eyeballing the rest of it, thinking "Oh this pose looks good, and this one too. Then this fits here and blah blah blah..."
Yeah, with the mass issue, I think I started getting confused because it's such an awkward complex motion for cartoon character. Would it probably be a good idea to draw myself somewhat of a ruler on the character? Basically like the lines you drew except I could just make it a symbol, put it on a guide layer, and then just drag it along as reference?
For the referencing shots, I usually have just stood in front of a mirror and done the motions but I just got a sick new camera so I might start doing that XD
I also just got a great idea: For really really complex motions I could film myself doing it, then sort of "half" rotoscope it as an animatic.... I'm gonna try that in the future if the opportunity calls for it.
Wish I could say more, but you've said it all! Thankyou so so much, this seriously is the biggest help! (Thanks for also drawing out the arcs on the .swf, that really helped it stick!)
Here's my first go at it using arcs:
http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/94bb777c3ec99d8fd373cf8a a7e4bd78
Even though it's not done, just having fixed that one arm has made an amazing difference!
I also noticed that the arcs help me get done faster too! I'm lovin this
At 3/3/13 09:14 PM, Trampzy wrote: Here's my first go at it using arcs:
http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/94bb777c3ec99d8fd373cf8a a7e4bd78
Even though it's not done, just having fixed that one arm has made an amazing difference!
I also noticed that the arcs help me get done faster too! I'm lovin this
Fantastic! Great to be of service. :)
The ticks marks will also help with your spacing. So when creating an arc, the spacing will help you dictate the easing which illustrates the acceleration and deceleration. Your new arm sweep is much better already, great work!
MUCH better with the guide. also watch your scaling, you've got the idea of foreshortening when the arm comes perpendicular to the camera, but you want the hand to scale larger instead of smaller since it's coming closer to you.
stuff like this is where rotoscoping becomes great practice
At 3/3/13 09:14 AM, PeterSatera wrote: Stuff
Wow, I just wanted to come by and say thank you for helping me indirectly. I've always wondered why some of movements I make seem to be out of place.
This is a really great explanation you made there.
At 3/2/13 06:47 AM, PeterSatera wrote:
Be aware, drawing in the exact centre of these frames when inbetweening will erase any use of easing you may want to create from one pose to another.
Get me? :)
common curse of the onion skin
At 3/5/13 11:46 AM, Pkmn2 wrote: Wow, I just wanted to come by and say thank you for helping me indirectly. I've always wondered why some of movements I make seem to be out of place.
This is a really great explanation you made there.
No problem! You are very welcome!
At 3/5/13 11:53 AM, Max-Vador wrote: common curse of the onion skin
unfortunately yeah, if you just get into the habit of creating a constant half way of your keys yeah. Thats why tick marks on your arc can help. Or use breakdown frames to help suggest easing and run a line test before adding all the inbetweens in. But yeah it will occur until you get better at easing.
