*sigh

We are talking about current affairs, not things they that may have been done in the past, which no longer apply today.

Sure, and that was during WW2, after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and killed thousands of people, including civilians - not to mention what Japan did to neighboring countries, and prisoners of war (estimated, they killed 6 to 10 million civilians).

And it was not an easy decision to make, but it ended the war quickly, leading to fewer American casualties that would have been in the millions otherwise.

Technically, it's not a banned chemical weapon by international standards - but I agree, it should never be used, even for the rare incidents it was used for.

Yes, and it was popular policy at first, back in the 50's to early 80's, to prop up strongmen controlled governments, not just South America countries, but other foreign countries as well (like the Middle East), to fight the spread of communism, and the drug trade. It didn't work out well, and created more problems than it solved.

It doesn't change the fact that most Western Countries are actual democracies, not controlled by monarchies, or dictators. You are creating a huge false equivalency here by comparing Western countries to them. *Though, Trump seems to admire dictatorships, and seems to wants to make the US imitate them, which should be discouraged.

How many Western countries are like that today? You seem to be confusing the past with the present.

So?

Son, the thing about Democracies is that you have the freedom to disagree, and change things. If you have a bad leader, or politicians, you can vote them out of power for things you think are hurting this country, it's citizens, or others. With dictatorships you can't change what is bad, at all. That is the biggest fucking difference that you go out of your way to ignore, to make your comparative argument. All countries have done shit in their history, some even recently, but Western countries can change, and move away from that shit, while dictatorships can't because they are always busy rooting out dissentt, and opposing views, to keep their power centralized.

That doesn’t make them any better, if anything, it makes them worse because they don’t admit all the shit that they do to their people, let alone putting Japan and South Korea on edge, and straining relations with their only beneficiary in China.

Wrong on 3 fronts.

First, Russia had more nuclear weapons back in the Soviet era, and currently has the same amount of active nukes as the U.S. has now with 1,600.

Second, While it was true that there were plenty of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki that died in the bombing, there were also high value military targets that aided in the Japanese war effort, even when any hope for victory was dashed to everyone but themselves.

Finally, The Soviets were practically breathing down their neck, and considering that their occupation of countries like Poland was pretty grisly in retrospect, the A-bombs doubled as a deterrent to Soviet aggression in the Far East while providing a death nail to Japanese Empire.

That’s not the point we’ve been making all this time. Plus while WP is devastating, they don’t leave toxic fallout.

Guess what? Every major power supported dictators in proxy countries all the time for their own interests since the time of the Persians/Greeks/Romans.

As dickish as they are, North Korea takes their cruelty that would give them pause. Also, unlike North Korea, they have a valuable resource that NK does not have in oil.

Here’s the difference, Eritrea isn’t trying to bomb their neighbors with nuclear weapons while simultaneously starving and torturing their own people for silly reasons.

That’s because North Korea is a rogue state with nuclear weapons who hate South Korea, Japan and the US. Their may be countries that may be worse in various factors, but other than Syria, who is in the middle of a civil war with multiple factions, most dictators at least keep their worst behavior in their own country, lest they face the scorn of the West and/or Russia.

Hmm, so I guess numerous stories of defectors describing hellish conditions in gulags and in the countryside isn’t convincing enough for you? Are you for real?

The fact that you are constantly changing the goalposts while trying to pass the blame to us because of arbitrary rationale about the media or propaganda proves that you are either a shill for North Korea and their thuggish regime, or you are willingly blind to their antics while going no you on us.

Son, democracy on paper sounds cool and trendy but it's simply a nice way of saying "mob rule" and doing a different chapter of the same nonsense whilst giving an illusion of choice and being able to change anything by voting. Instead of the state enforcing against dissent and opposing views, it's the mob. If your country isn't a democracy we'll make it our business to force it to become one in one way or another, just like the last country before it, and the last one, and the last one, etc. - If anything that is even more tyrannical.

Democracy today is *nothing* like democracy that was practiced in ancient Greece if that's what you are thinking.

I'm free to disagree and to see things from my own perspective but people seem to have a problem with that. Some of my examples may be historical but that doesn't mean it can't be applied in a modern context or it can't repeat itself.

You think people voted for "dictators" for no reason?

LOL

Sure, it's mob rule, but without all the blood and violence. It's also why you can speak out, instead of being thrown into jail for your views that offends the ruling class, silly.

Democracy is the best you can get, unless you are saying you want a dictatorship, or a system where only people you deem worthy can vote - which is nothing more than another facet of tyranny.

No, it's even better than the original Greek system, since only certain people could vote for their rulers in it, while slavery was widespread during those times.

And democracy has always had that possibility of people voting for dictators, in any era, which is one reason why many ancient (and even modern) democracies (like Syria and Russia), have not survived. It's all the more reason to kick out people in government who try to undermine democracy, using fear tactics, and Hate, and are backed by the military, to gain and secure power for themselves - looking at Trump, here.

At 8/27/19 07:46 PM, EdyKel wrote::

Being condescending and laughing at my points doesn't make you more right or myself less so, and how can you say there is no blood and violence and forget all the wars that started over trying to force democracy? You may not be thrown in jail - but it doesn't stop you from being beaten on the street, lose your job, treated with suspicion, assassinated, or "suicided" like many associates of the Clintons. Are those really any better? It's a different kind of jail altogether.

It may be the best to you, but that's your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it.

How do you know that it's better? But that's all in the past. So by your standards that's completely irrelevant.

Here's something: The United States gives trillions of monies, buys oil from and supports states that practice slavery today like Qatar and The UAE. I have even lived in the former for a while. I did not have a slave however.

Dictator simply means "Any ruler who I happen to not like". Each US president so far has merely been a continuation of the previous one. Same crap different person. But that's fine because you got the choose out of a very generous TWO options though. Last time I checked both Syria and Russia are still around and both are multi-party states.

You think the media (Not necessarily Western) or big tech companies like Google or Twitter doesn't do any of that? You don't have to be a ruler, in government in order to influence others.

I just want to talk about North Korea like this thread was intended for. (Or maybe I was wrong) Not entertaining this boring fake intellectual trite.

Son, you don't even know what you want. Now you are complaining about human nature, and promoting unfounded conspiracy theories. There is no way anyone with half a brain would take what you say seriously.

Again, you are embellishing things, or creating guilt by association, to create a false equivalency. I already gave you examples of why the Greek system is not as good as what there is now.

I love how you create your own definition of things. As I pointed out, you can't vote out Dictators, and you have a lot more freedom in actual democracies. Those are huge differences.

That not saying much when you have plenty of these hate groups leading people to commit domestic terrorism over superficial shit.

No one is forcing you to reply back. People are just pointing out your silly your nonsense. I suggest that you move to NK, since you are unhappy with democracies. I think you need to experience the difference first hand between a dictatorship and a democracy.

You're a bigger slave than anyone in NK could ever be and you don't even realise it.

Reply back, slave.

Made you look

I remembered about a series that a New Zealand-based travel vlogger produced some time ago. He goes on a budget tour and does vlogger things as you would expect and you get a first-person perspective along with some personal commentary. On his last video he also does a little Q&A from viewers and addresses some obvious questions. It's an interesting watch either way for those who are interested:

Playlist link: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN0FlxE6vY5DlAPO1runQHOZSYyxePI1O

Wait I’m a bit confused. So is the shitposter from North Korea? It’s an interesting story.

NK has recently denounced US nuclear talks, calling them misleading. I suppose Trump can always give them another photo-op, strengthening Kim Jong-un's position there further. I mean, that is all Trump has succeeded at, with all his praise and leniency, towards them.

So I recently came across this weird little independent documentary on YouTube and I wonder what you guys would think of it. Basically it's attempting to argue that:

• North Korean defectors shouldn't always be trusted because they're paid tons of money to tell horrible stories
• The NIS (South Korean Intelligence) is corrupt and only helping to worsen relations with NK
• The United States is basically responsible for NK's economy and agriculture collapsing

What do you all think? Does it raise some points? Is it just a bunch of bullshit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktE_3PrJZO0

edit: It's called "Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul"

Depends on what propaganda site it came from, or anti-establishment views you hold.

Personally, I don't trust a guy who is revered as a king in a classless society, plays with nukes, and sends dead American people back to the states while demanding money for their care.

Me neither, although they seem to talk more about Kim il-sung's wheelings and dealings in the doc.

It's ridiculous how the west tries to dehumanise the North Koreans in every shape or form and accuse them of various things as if they had not done the same thing but even worse, on a bigger scale, and over a longer period of time.

Prison camps? So what? What makes them any different from just a regular prison? The US has the largest prison population in the world and a lot of their own citizens get shot and killed by their own police before they even see a court room for the pettiest of things.

Tell us again how you think Hitler was much maligned....

Here’s the difference, most of the western countries have already either fessed up to their crimes, or has basically stop giving a shit about them because the perpetrators have long since died. About the only country that haven’t is Japan, and even in their case, it has more to do with long standing grudges going back centuries before WW2.

What makes North Korea different (similar to the Balkans and Uganda back then) is that they are blatant about causing human suffering on levels that are appalling by today’s standards and there is nothing much we can do without invoking China’s wrath. China is a nuclear state and the Communist regime are ruthless assholes, so we have to tread lightly.

Last time I checked, we don’t starve criminals in shit pit gulags and send three generations of their families to certain death because someone told a joke about Korean Eric Cartman. Maybe get off your moral high horse before making wild claims and comparisons.

Bullshit. They're still carrying pulling the same crap today.

The US drone strikes weddings and villages to "fight terrorism", travels to foreign countries to shoot women and children over some "weapons of mass destruction" that frankly didn't exist to begin with and steals their oil. Funds "rebels" and "revolutions" to fight governments they don't like then turns around and calls them "terrorists" once they got their use out of them. Don't pretend you're any better.

Source: Government-approved propagand- um... News outlets and my ass.

I'm sure the US treats its prisoners (Convicted, awaiting trial or on false charges) with as much dignity and respect.

Kiss my ass.

So do you guys think North Korea would accept a female leader?

North Korea is still very much in the early 20th century, girls stay at home until they are married off. Boys live in the house their father's lived in until he dies and then they have to inherit it and pass it down.

It's definitely a culture that is still paternal and hierarchical with older men at the top.

But how much do the citizens believe the people in charge are divine? In Greek/Roman mythology, a goddess was above any mortal man on earth, even a king. But up in Olympus, the goddesses were still beneath the gods.

How? The vast majority of crimes against humanity in the last 40 years or so has been in countries like Iran and North Korea, and in terms of scale, are on par with communist dictatorships in the Eastern Bloc. (The USSR is a whole different level)

Of course, it’s so easy to throw claims of war crimes or crimes against humanity on a nation, that it has been rendered meaningless, because of the constant crying wolf, which is letting countries like North Korea get away with what they’re doing with mostly nominal punishment.

Last time I checked, we don’t shoot women and children for kicks, nor does the government have ever condoned it. You can blame individual soldiers or bad intel, but to put the whole onus on us for actively killing civilians is not only ignorant, but irresponsible. But then again, I take it that you don’t give a shit about things like nuance and facts.

We aren’t psychics, no one could have predicted that parts of the Mujahideen could turn against us the way they did for example. That’s realpolitik for you, yesterday’s allies could be today’s enemies and vice versa, and I’m not surprised that something like that flew over your head.

Where? Where are the so called American labor camps that are on par with North Korean death camps? Oh right, they don’t exist. Also, we don’t punish 3 generations of prisoners’ families for minor crimes, did you even read anything I said, or are you just too blind in your made up narrative to actually put up a serious argument?

Yeah, you’re still on your high horse.