Medals Best Practices?

[Frenchie14]

Hey everyone!

I'm planning on uploading a game to Newgrounds in the next week. I can find a lot of information on how medals and the associated APIs work, but I don't see any information about best practices for medals. The official documentation just says "up to 500 points" and "see games with medals for ideas" (https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/creator-resources/flash-api/adding-medals-to-your-game). I looked through a few and I don't see any consistency in terms of the value of points or number of medals. I know it's up to us to put what we want as developers, but what are people on this site expecting? My only points of reference are Kongregate and Xbox, which each have their own, different, best practices. I feel like a lot of this has to do with the culture of the site. I haven't used Newgrounds in ~15 years, so I'm pretty out of touch. Questions I have:

• Do players expect a game to always use 500 points in medals? Even if there's just one "beat the game" medal?
• Do players want a challenge with their medals to show as a badge of honor or is it all about collecting as many as possible?
• If I put in some "challenge" medals (e.g. beat the game in 5 minutes), will users get annoyed or appreciate it?
• Do players enjoy lots of medals (like beat level 1, 5, 10) or just meaningful medals (like beat the game)
• I see medals need to go through an approval process. What could get a medal rejected?
• Anything else I should know?

I'm sure there's forum posts or docs about this that I couldn't find. Please link them to me if you know them!

Thanks!

[BobbyBurt]

Very good question, and I'm hoping someone who's more versed in NG games could shed some light on the specifics. I'm in a similar situation, I'm working on a game with Medals for the first time. I could do a much better job with them though, since most of them are just for completing levels.

That said, I'll give my two cents on this, since I've had it on my mind.

Do players expect a game to always use 500 points in medals? Even if there's just one "beat the game" medal?

I don't think so. That's just the limit to ensure people aren't giving points away. I don't think it would be worth it to come up with more medals than necessary to reach that max.

Do players want a challenge with their medals to show as a badge of honor or is it all about collecting as many as possible?

If I put in some "challenge" medals (e.g. beat the game in 5 minutes), will users get annoyed or appreciate it?

Do players enjoy lots of medals (like beat level 1, 5, 10) or just meaningful medals (like beat the game)

Personally I find it lame to see games that have tons of medals for very normal stuff, like "beat level 22" "beat level 23" etc etc. Seeing rows and rows of medals with icons that all look similar feels daunting yet uninteresting. If your game is fun, the player should want to beat the levels or whatever without having a medal to encourage them. (Again, I'm guilty of this.) Having a few unavoidable medals, like one for beating the game, is okay though.

Medals are like a badge of honor, but I think the real purpose of them from a design perspective is repeatability. I think each should encourage the player to play or replay the game in a new and interesting way, or challenge them to play better.

I see medals need to go through an approval process. What could get a medal rejected?

That's just an API thing, nobody's actually reviewing your medals as far as I know. For a medal to be approved, you have to prove that it's possible to get it by using the API to unlock it. If at any point during testing the call works, your medal will be approved.

Something I'm curious about is the purpose of secret medals. It seems odd to include one but not say how to get it.

In terms of NG specific best practices, your best point of reference is other NG games. Wouldn't hurt to spend some time with some popular games / old classics and see how they handle medals.

[OneThousandMeeps]

At 5/31/20 02:59 AM, Frenchie14 wrote:Hey everyone!

Oh, hello! I like medals!

I'm planning on uploading a game to Newgrounds in the next week.

I'll make sure to check it out. Could you tell us any information on the style or theme of it?

I can find a lot of information on how medals and the associated APIs work, but I don't see any information about best practices for medals. The official documentation just says "up to 500 points" and "see games with medals for ideas" (https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/creator-resources/flash-api/adding-medals-to-your-game). I looked through a few and I don't see any consistency in terms of the value of points or number of medals. I know it's up to us to put what we want as developers, but what are people on this site expecting? My only points of reference are Kongregate and Xbox, which each have their own, different, best practices. I feel like a lot of this has to do with the culture of the site. I haven't used Newgrounds in ~15 years, so I'm pretty out of touch. Questions I have:

• Do players expect a game to always use 500 points in medals? Even if there's just one "beat the game" medal?

Relatively few games have as many points as that. The average game with medals has ~200 or so. It is also worth noting that some games, with what I assume is special permission, have as many as a thousand or more. I'd try to make the total number of points fit how long and how hard the entire game is.

• Do players want a challenge with their medals to show as a badge of honor or is it all about collecting as many as possible?

That depends on the player. I enjoy more difficult medals. I like the exclusive aspect they very often attain. However, some games simply cannot logically have medals like that. Progression based medals are very often quite easy,(depending on the game, of course,) but games with level-based progression don't have many more options. If you're making a game like that, it might be a good idea to add a star system, and/or secrets with hints given at the end of the game. Grindy medals can also be added, but I think it is universally agreed upon that they suck.

• If I put in some "challenge" medals (e.g. beat the game in 5 minutes), will users get annoyed or appreciate it?

If you make any medal with any amount of difficulty, someone may complain about it. I wouldn't worry about that too much, though. I only tend to see that in the reviews of extremely popular games.

• Do players enjoy lots of medals (like beat level 1, 5, 10) or just meaningful medals (like beat the game)

For an idea of the popular execution of these types of medals, it might be a good plan to take a look at some @MrNannings and @Rob1221 games. There are a lot of @Gamezhero games of this type, as well.

• I see medals need to go through an approval process. What could get a medal rejected?

That's just an API thing, nobody's actually reviewing your medals as far as I know. For a medal to be approved, you have to prove that it's possible to get it by using the API to unlock it. If at any point during testing the call works, your medal will be approved.

Perhaps it should also be noted that a long while ago there were actual people who needed to approve medals. Now there is no such thing, but if a medal is broken, it can or could be removed by API moderators, assuming there is no response from the game developer.

• Anything else I should know?

Adult rated games are not allowed to have medals, bar a few exceptions, (I think.)

Secret medals can be added that do not show their name, icon, nor description for a person that has not unlocked it.

Medals that only a singular person can unlock are not allowed, and medals requiring a person to have something in their username are not respected. I do not like medals that may only be unlocked on/during a certain date or period each year, but those are allowed.

I don't know if any of this is important or interesting but I might as well write it down:

Every person has a medal wall @ username.newgrounds.com/stats/medals. Once a person has a single medal from any game, that game will appear there in the alphabetically correct position. All unlocked medals, including secret ones, will show their icon, and when they are hovered over, the name and, for non-secret medals, description will be shown. If no person at all has unlocked a medal, it will not appear on anyone's medal wall, and, when hovered over on the game's page, it will say it is worth 0 points.

When six or fewer people have unlocked a medal, it shows those who have unlocked it in order of unlocks. Once more than six, but fewer than 22 people have unlocked it, it will switch to just showing all who have unlocked it ordered by recency. Once more than that have it, it shows the first six and beneath it the latest 21.

Sometimes, when the medals of a game are removed for whatever reason, the medals and points will remain a part of the respective counts. E.g. this currently on page 186. These have been dubbed "phantom medals," by @NeonSpider, I believe.

There are two different lists of games with medals, the new and my preference, the old. The old shows games with medals as soon as they are uploaded in a list fifty submissions long. The new shows fewer submissions with large thumbnails. You can add /feature/medals to the end of any category you please, and it will only show games with medals in that category. Movies can also have medals, as shown here. There used to be an even older list that was manually updated and had every submission on one page, but that was long before my time.

There are two lists keeping track of how many points each person has. The official is here and shows how many positions each person has risen or fallen over time. It also sorts by three different categories, points, medals, and games from which the user has at least one medal. The unofficial has much more information and includes 200, rather than 50 users, but only sorts by medal points and only shows ranking changes over the past week. Currently, I am in the 23rd position sorted by medals.

I'm sure there's forum posts or docs about this that I couldn't find. Please link them to me if you know them!

Thanks!

I recommend you take a look at this as well: https://retroachievements.org/viewtopic.php?t=1235&c=7357

It's obviously tailored more toward the retroachievements site, but there is still a lot of useful information that applies to any platform like it.

At 6/5/20 10:35 AM, mayorDump wrote:Very good question, and I'm hoping someone who's more versed in NG games could shed some light on the specifics. I'm in a similar situation, I'm working on a game with Medals for the first time. I could do a much better job with them though, since most of them are just for completing levels.

I hope you found my review helpful, then. To go deeper into games with levels, here are a few suggestions based on what I've seen:

• Collectables in each level, medals for finding a certain % and 100%
• Timing how long it takes to complete each level, medal for cumulative time, medal for completing an especially difficult level fairly quickly
• If applicable, keeping track of deaths, for the whole game, and individual levels. medals for completing whole game with fewer than x deaths, medal for completing especially difficult medal without deaths, medal for completing all levels with no deaths at least once.
• medal for getting all of previous, 100%ing the game
• medal for using a pickup or skill for the first time, medal for not using a certain pickup or skill at all for the whole game

I need to stop; I'm out of characters sadly.

I'll @ some other active medal-earners in case they have more to add. @optimos @herbieg @neonspider @fro @cyberdevil @bobogoobo @phantasyreal @megawise @awesome-moose @athomas5

[Frenchie14]

Wow, that was an awesome post! Thanks for letting us know about the ins and outs of Newgrounds medals :D

I'll make sure to check it out. Could you tell us any information on the style or theme of it?

I just published it! The game is called Factions. It's a minimalist Action-RTS set on a small 3D world. I started with some fairly simple medals. Let me know what you think!

If you make any medal with any amount of difficulty, someone may complain about it.

I did end up putting a "Beat the game in 10 minutes" medal. I beat it in 7.5 when I uploaded to the site so it should be doable for most people. My hope is that people will play through using one strategy (probably slow, building up armies) and then try again using a more fast-paced strategy. They should be able to get the medal easily, but not on their first playthrough. I could make an even harder medal for more points (maybe 7 minute completion time?) but I don't think that meaningfully adds or changes the gameplay at all.

There are two different lists of games with medals, the new and my preference, the old. 

I think your links are not quite right. In case anyone else stops by and reads this, it should be new and old

I recommend you take a look at this as well: https://retroachievements.org/viewtopic.php?t=1235&c=7357

Fantastic article! It reminded me of another one, which is also a great read: https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/GregMcClanahan/20091202/86035/Achievement_Design_101.php

[NeonSpider]

Yep @Frenchie14 got the medal pages links correct, and @OneThousandMeeps had the right idea but for some reason got the links a bit wrong.

I strongly recommend players use the old one as it's all-around better, but the site will tend to officially link only the new one. (But if you manually put in the old one it'll still work)

Reasons are -- the old one includes ALL games with medals, not missing any, whereas the new one misses some games with medals, in particular if they are still under judgment, and it also incorrectly adds some games that do not have any medals. And the old one doesn't omit as much information as the new one. So if you get serious with medal collecting it's probably the one you want to use.

As for what constitute good medals, different people will have different ideas on this. Some people, such as myself, will prefer actually hard purely skill-based medals. Other people will hate those medals but prefer easier "gimme" medals or grind-based medals. Obviously if you get past a certain point in medal collecting, then you tend to go for them all, but will still have preferences.

I would say it's a bad thing when people just throw 500 points of medals into games that aren't well thought-out just to increase the medal count, though it's common enough. On the other hand, if a game is well thought-out and warrants it, and many do, then it is perfectly fine to use the full 500 points worth of medals in your game.

I've seen two strategies -- either lots of low-point medals, or very few high-point medals. For example, you could give a medal for every little thing, all (or mostly) 5 pointers. On the other end, you could have just 5 medals, all 100 pointers. Or you could do something in between the two.

[BozR]

I was recently pointed to https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/help-information/terms-of-use/medal-guidelines

I wouldn't find it on my own.

Could it be linked in the game medals dev pages?

(let me know if there's a better place to send this)