What is good rhythm game design.

[KadeDevl]

Wanting to do some research on what people think are good rhythm games, doesn't have to be a specific playstyle like 4 key or 8 key. Could be anything, like Rhythm Doctor, ADOFAI, Rhythm Heaven, SDVX, Acraea, Stepmania, etc.

Lemme know what kind of stuff you like, and stuff you don't like. What do you consider good rhythm game design, and what isn't?

Personally, I am a big fan of 4 key rhythm games, but I do like other genres. I think story-based rhythm games like Rhythm Doctor have an amazing feel to them, and with custom music they really shine. Same goes with Friday Night Funkin'. It really shows how much a story can contribute to what was thought as an already very closely defined genre of games.

With outliers like Rhythm Heaven, and other hand hold device games; It's obvious that they have existed before, but now in 2022 it really looks like they're taking over.

[burgerballs]

Sans undertale

[Gimmick]

For me the quintessential rhythm game is Guitar Hero (and its derivatives such as Frets on Fire), but later games that I've played include Beat Hazard for android and osu!.

There's also the obvious FnF but I much prefer the first rhythm game I played on here which was Bullet Audyssey:

That being said I don't really know what goes into making a good rhythm game. I used to think it was just 'synchronize notes with beats' but thats because I'm not anywhere near a pro at these games, so the harder-to-master parts would all be lost on me.

There's this video on youtube, but I can't really vouch for how good it is.

[KadeDevl]

Oh, Etienne is a fantastic choice, he is a very talented player in the 4 key community, and yeah, I agree. Guitar Hero is definitely one of the founding fathers and some elements of it still pop up in newer unrelated rhythm games.

Good pick!

[OppositeTheta]

i've always liked fnf because of how customizable everything is. especially now with stuff like psych, you can do a lot to tune your experience to how you like it. although, etterna is probably my personal favorite when it comes to input and customizability. etterna's ease of customizability is super convenient if you want to change anything in the hud to your liking, not to mention it's input system is the best out of any rhythm game i've played so far.

[KadeDevl]

At 11/16/22 12:32 AM, ItsAMeSammieO wrote:i've always liked fnf because of how customizable everything is. especially now with stuff like psych, you can do a lot to tune your experience to how you like it. although, etterna is probably my personal favorite when it comes to input and customizability. etterna's ease of customizability is super convenient if you want to change anything in the hud to your liking, not to mention it's input system is the best out of any rhythm game i've played so far.

So true bestie, said like a king!

Etterna is definitely one of the best competitive forks of Stepmania but have you tried others like Project Outfox or something entirely unrelated but kind of related at the same time, ITG/NotITG.

[KadeDevl]

At 11/16/22 10:15 AM, SnugBugNG wrote:as a "PRO HARDCORE GAEMER" i think if you want to get most people invested in a rhythm game you must focus on just that: "the rhythm" make it feel good to play the game try not to make it so insanley hard like some beats in FNF, try to have impactful but chill groovy sound, make it satisfying to hit the button JUST in time. thats just my opinion tho

definitely think that music choice is something people pick games for. Which is actually why I think custom charts/beatmaps are so popular. don't like the music? do it yourself!

it's really cool to see how people evolved dance games or just simple button pressers to create their own things out of it.

[OppositeTheta]

you tried others like Project Outfox

sadly never heard of it :/

something entirely unrelated but kind of related at the same time, ITG/NotITG.

i've always wanted to try NotITG ever since i played that false paradise mod but i've never figured out how to use it. its probably just because im dumb tho LOL

[Skoops]

My current go-to is Jubeat but my first love is DDR. Design wise, they are quite different. DDR is what you typically expect: commands travel across a screen and you hit the right thing at the right time. In jubeat, the buttons themselves are little screens that begin animating a split second before you need to hit it.

In both, though, the key to their good design is visibility. I can't handle rhythm games where things overlap or change position all the time; Maimai is pure chaos, Sound Voltex has multiple buttons and a crossfade mechanic sharing the same slots as the 4 main buttons, Taiko no Tatsujin has notes overlapping so much in the Oni songs that you can barely tell which color the icons are, yadda yadda. I love Beat Saber but I can only get so good at it because you literally can't see where the arrows are when notes are physically in front of each other. Good course design can mitigate that, but it's a format limitation.

It's good when the challenge is your reaction time, rather than your ability to parse visual clutter.

[aapiarts]

I like Muse Dash. It's like Taiko but simpler and visually more impressive (though the style might be offturning to some). It has a big song list and is very cheap. Only 3 bucks for the base game which gives you a good handful of songs and I think most of the characters. The DLC is 30 bucks and gives you like 10 times more songs and (if I remember correctly) all the collab characters. It's fun because it's, has very cool visuals and a lot of songs.

I personally like it when a rhythm game has very cartoony style and memorable characters (Muse Dash, Parappa, FNF, Melodii, Taiko). I don't like rhythm games with boring visuals like Stepmania. Also simple rhythm games (so mainly 2k and 4k) are the most fun to me

[Jukestar]

Mother 3 has some interesting rhythm mechanics in its combo system.

Bullets per Minute looks fun as well, but I have not played it yet.

I personally think Geometry Dash is my least favourite music game. I find myself often jumping in rhythm to the tracks only to die immediately. It would be way more fun if rhythm was a lot more of a thing in the game instead of just being a block that jumps or flies over shit; it's literally just a flashier Impossible Game and I hated that game due to having to hear the beginning of the same track over and over and over again when I died. Just not good game design in my personal opinion.

[Chrisdorian17]

I don't know but personally i love DDR, it's something simple that can evolve with the player's skill

I don't feel that it should have something so complicated, as the other comment says it should just be something easy with a good rhythm, i can enjoy many rhythm games with different gameplay and feel good because it feels good to play

me and some friends are still seeing how to make a porn rhythm game

[pk6969]

At 11/18/22 12:22 PM, Chrisdorian17 wrote:

*SNIP*

me and some friends are still seeing how to make a porn rhythm game

There are tons of "Cock Hero" (or such) on PH.

But am I going to show my age by saying Bust-A-Move/Groove 1 and 2 for the PS1?

[Notakin]

Im not the expert in rhythm games, in fact i've played a smidge of them, rhythm haven, fnf, ddr... slap happy rhythm busters? idk, i guess good rhythm and fun mechanics equal a good game

[eeMcCutcheon]

You could consider Mother 3 to be a rpg / rhythm game hybrid.

Its designed well because, as the player, you're not cripplingly reprimanded for being off-tempo in battles. Instead you're only rewarded with attack combos

And later on, it gets harder because they start remixing old songs to mess with you!

[CytherXVI]

your chart has to have good flow, i cant elaborate on this since im not a charter myself but yeah. make it feel nice to play.

[KadeDevl]

At 11/17/22 09:11 PM, ItsAMeSammieO wrote:sadly never heard of it :/

i've always wanted to try NotITG ever since i played that false paradise mod but i've never figured out how to use it. its probably just because im dumb tho LOL

ooo outfox is pretty good. sticks to arcade rhythm gaming pretty well. Supports a ton of playstyles too

[KadeDevl]

At 11/18/22 12:10 AM, Skoops wrote:My current go-to is Jubeat but my first love is DDR. Design wise, they are quite different. DDR is what you typically expect: commands travel across a screen and you hit the right thing at the right time. In jubeat, the buttons themselves are little screens that begin animating a split second before you need to hit it.

In both, though, the key to their good design is visibility. I can't handle rhythm games where things overlap or change position all the time; Maimai is pure chaos, Sound Voltex has multiple buttons and a crossfade mechanic sharing the same slots as the 4 main buttons, Taiko no Tatsujin has notes overlapping so much in the Oni songs that you can barely tell which color the icons are, yadda yadda. I love Beat Saber but I can only get so good at it because you literally can't see where the arrows are when notes are physically in front of each other. Good course design can mitigate that, but it's a format limitation.

It's good when the challenge is your reaction time, rather than your ability to parse visual clutter.

You know I actually really love DDR specifically because of how jank older games were. It is super funny to compare old DDR to new DDR (or something like Stepmania/ITG)

[KadeDevl]

At 11/18/22 12:29 AM, aapiarts wrote:I like Muse Dash. It's like Taiko but simpler and visually more impressive (though the style might be offturning to some). It has a big song list and is very cheap. Only 3 bucks for the base game which gives you a good handful of songs and I think most of the characters. The DLC is 30 bucks and gives you like 10 times more songs and (if I remember correctly) all the collab characters. It's fun because it's, has very cool visuals and a lot of songs.

I personally like it when a rhythm game has very cartoony style and memorable characters (Muse Dash, Parappa, FNF, Melodii, Taiko). I don't like rhythm games with boring visuals like Stepmania. Also simple rhythm games (so mainly 2k and 4k) are the most fun to me

Oh, dude muse dash is a classic. Very good pick, and yeah visuals make up a lot of cool Arcady games! Have you played NotITG or ITG? You might really like the visual look of modcharts!

[KadeDevl]

At 11/18/22 01:27 AM, Jojo wrote:Mother 3 has some interesting rhythm mechanics in its combo system.

Bullets per Minute looks fun as well, but I have not played it yet.

I personally think Geometry Dash is my least favourite music game. I find myself often jumping in rhythm to the tracks only to die immediately. It would be way more fun if rhythm was a lot more of a thing in the game instead of just being a block that jumps or flies over shit; it's literally just a flashier Impossible Game and I hated that game due to having to hear the beginning of the same track over and over and over again when I died. Just not good game design in my personal opinion.

GD isn't really a rhythm game, more or less a music platformer. Which is why going in with the mindset of "I expect a rhythm game" kinda makes the game feel like shit lol.

But I totally get you! I saw Bullets per Minute and God I do not like that game at all. It's a neat concept but really it gets boring super-fast. Unlike other rougelikes that aren't rhythm based (IE, Slay the spire, Risk of rain 2, Binding of issac, etc)

[aapiarts]

At 11/19/22 12:11 AM, Kade-Developer wrote:

At 11/18/22 12:29 AM, aapiarts wrote:I like Muse Dash. It's like Taiko but simpler and visually more impressive (though the style might be offturning to some). It has a big song list and is very cheap. Only 3 bucks for the base game which gives you a good handful of songs and I think most of the characters. The DLC is 30 bucks and gives you like 10 times more songs and (if I remember correctly) all the collab characters. It's fun because it's, has very cool visuals and a lot of songs.

I personally like it when a rhythm game has very cartoony style and memorable characters (Muse Dash, Parappa, FNF, Melodii, Taiko). I don't like rhythm games with boring visuals like Stepmania. Also simple rhythm games (so mainly 2k and 4k) are the most fun to me

Oh, dude muse dash is a classic. Very good pick, and yeah visuals make up a lot of cool Arcady games! Have you played NotITG or ITG? You might really like the visual look of modcharts!

What are the full names?

[KadeDevl]

At 11/19/22 01:58 AM, aapiarts wrote:

At 11/19/22 12:11 AM, Kade-Developer wrote:

At 11/18/22 12:29 AM, aapiarts wrote:I like Muse Dash. It's like Taiko but simpler and visually more impressive (though the style might be offturning to some). It has a big song list and is very cheap. Only 3 bucks for the base game which gives you a good handful of songs and I think most of the characters. The DLC is 30 bucks and gives you like 10 times more songs and (if I remember correctly) all the collab characters. It's fun because it's, has very cool visuals and a lot of songs.

I personally like it when a rhythm game has very cartoony style and memorable characters (Muse Dash, Parappa, FNF, Melodii, Taiko). I don't like rhythm games with boring visuals like Stepmania. Also simple rhythm games (so mainly 2k and 4k) are the most fun to me

Oh, dude muse dash is a classic. Very good pick, and yeah visuals make up a lot of cool Arcady games! Have you played NotITG or ITG? You might really like the visual look of modcharts!

What are the full names?

Not in the groove and in the groove

[ParamilkonNG]

Beatmania