What do you think of the internet calling jungle/dnb breakcore?

[tetraaugen]

I'm not that knowledgable on genres within breakcore, dnb, jungle, and the like (surprisingly), but I did get really confused listening to those newer "breakcore" mix videos and it didn't sound chaotic as I thought it would (or should). I even once saw a "soft breakcore" mix video and... ??? Breakcore is not really "soft" ?

What most people in recent years think is breakcore is actually jungle and dnb. Cool songs, but still not breakcore. I've taken this opportunity to get a better grasp on the differences and I just wanna say we have to make clear that most of it is (atmospheric) jungle :,)

[SkankyMojo]

Sorry, just for clarification, what are the differences between DnB, Jungle and Breakcore? Cos I thought DnB was the main genre, Jungle is a sub genre of DnB with Dub influences (so it's still DnB) and Breakcore was another sub genre of DnB where everyone basically rips of Squarepusher and Venetian Snares. So like, they are all DnB...

[tetraaugen]

At 7/19/23 04:09 AM, AkioDaku wrote:Sorry, just for clarification, what are the differences between DnB, Jungle and Breakcore? Cos I thought DnB was the main genre, Jungle is a sub genre of DnB with Dub influences (so it's still DnB) and Breakcore was another sub genre of DnB where everyone basically rips of Squarepusher and Venetian Snares. So like, they are all DnB...

Musicmap combines dnb and jungle, wikipedia says dnb is under jungle, and I've heard of a few people treating dnb and jungle as separate. I've been under the impression that jungle is the main genre (or inspiring genre), with dnb and breakcore being under it. I did a little more research and listening, and according to this video, it classified as jungle is early 90s, and dnb is usually late 90s. According to thiss video, jungle started being called dnb mid-90s and eventually evolved to be a little different, which would then have a little separation from earlier jungle.

Breakcore is under jungle, but does have a notable difference from its inspiring genre (the tempo, drums, and multiple breaks). That I know for sure.

Maybe the breakcore title is kinda going through what jungle did in the 90s and is evolving right now, but it mostly seems like some atmospheric/ambient jungle as far as I'm aware

[SkankyMojo]

At 7/19/23 05:15 AM, tetraaugen wrote:

At 7/19/23 04:09 AM, AkioDaku wrote:Sorry, just for clarification, what are the differences between DnB, Jungle and Breakcore? Cos I thought DnB was the main genre, Jungle is a sub genre of DnB with Dub influences (so it's still DnB) and Breakcore was another sub genre of DnB where everyone basically rips of Squarepusher and Venetian Snares. So like, they are all DnB...

Musicmap combines dnb and jungle, wikipedia says dnb is under jungle, and I've heard of a few people treating dnb and jungle as separate. I've been under the impression that jungle is the main genre (or inspiring genre), with dnb and breakcore being under it. I did a little more research and listening, and according to this video, it classified as jungle is early 90s, and dnb is usually late 90s. According to thiss video, jungle started being called dnb mid-90s and eventually evolved to be a little different, which would then have a little separation from earlier jungle.
Breakcore is under jungle, but does have a notable difference from its inspiring genre (the tempo, drums, and multiple breaks). That I know for sure.

Maybe the breakcore title is kinda going through what jungle did in the 90s and is evolving right now, but it mostly seems like some atmospheric/ambient jungle as far as I'm aware

Ah fair does, I didn't realise Jungle was the precursor. I feel like genre is one of those spurious abstractions that becomes less useful as is branches off. Its more about social tribal mentality than it is about music in my opinion. It's more for teens to use to construct a sudo identity for themselves and their peers, than it is a useful musicological tool. But that's just my 2 cents. It's like race, I'd rather get rid of the concept and just be "humans" the distinction that I find most important is "do I like it?" music in any genre can be good or bad.

[d00dfayz]

At 7/19/23 04:09 AM, AkioDaku wrote:Sorry, just for clarification, what are the differences between DnB, Jungle and Breakcore? Cos I thought DnB was the main genre, Jungle is a sub genre of DnB with Dub influences (so it's still DnB) and Breakcore was another sub genre of DnB where everyone basically rips of Squarepusher and Venetian Snares. So like, they are all DnB...

Jungle evolved from early 90s breakbeat hardcore, a style of rave music that combined fast hip-hop breakbeats with techno/house four-on-the-floor drums plus typical rave synths (e.g. reese bass, hoover) and sample work. Jungle emerged as producers started experimenting with faster BPMs and focusing more on complex breaks and deep basslines, incorporating strong influences and sounds from dancehall and dub. Drum & Bass evolved from jungle in the late 90s by simplifying the breaks, dropping the typical dub sounds and harshening up the basslines and timbres (which would eventually create the "wobble" bass sound that carried over to grime, 2-step and dubstep).

Breakcore emerged in the early 2000s, presumably with influence from the slightly earlier Drill & Bass (Squarepusher, Aphex Twin et al) but in an even more abrasive package inspired by the industrial/punk ethos of Digital Hardcore. Breakcore coincided with digital audio technology improving to allow for faster processing and more precision and complexity in drum programming. You could analyze it as breakcore being the most extreme end of the hardcore continuum as it applies to breakbeat and bass music, much schranz, gabber, speedcore, splittercore and extratone in relation to techno, industrial and noise music.

[SkankyMojo]

At 7/19/23 03:13 PM, d00dfayz wrote:

At 7/19/23 04:09 AM, AkioDaku wrote:Sorry, just for clarification, what are the differences between DnB, Jungle and Breakcore? Cos I thought DnB was the main genre, Jungle is a sub genre of DnB with Dub influences (so it's still DnB) and Breakcore was another sub genre of DnB where everyone basically rips of Squarepusher and Venetian Snares. So like, they are all DnB...

Jungle evolved from early 90s breakbeat hardcore, a style of rave music that combined fast hip-hop breakbeats with techno/house four-on-the-floor drums plus typical rave synths (e.g. reese bass, hoover) and sample work. Jungle emerged as producers started experimenting with faster BPMs and focusing more on complex breaks and deep basslines, incorporating strong influences and sounds from dancehall and dub. Drum & Bass evolved from jungle in the late 90s by simplifying the breaks, dropping the typical dub sounds and harshening up the basslines and timbres (which would eventually create the "wobble" bass sound that carried over to grime, 2-step and dubstep).

Breakcore emerged in the early 2000s, presumably with influence from the slightly earlier Drill & Bass (Squarepusher, Aphex Twin et al) but in an even more abrasive package inspired by the industrial/punk ethos of Digital Hardcore. Breakcore coincided with digital audio technology improving to allow for faster processing and more precision and complexity in drum programming. You could analyze it as breakcore being the most extreme end of the hardcore continuum as it applies to breakbeat and bass music, much schranz, gabber, speedcore, splittercore and extratone in relation to techno, industrial and noise music.

Cheers for the info, that's really interesting. 😊

[tetraaugen]

At 7/19/23 12:06 PM, acheney wrote:i don't let it bother me too much. i imagine anyone who listens to sewerslvt and thinks, "i want to listen to more breakcore" will google "breakcore music" and soon find out that what they've heard isn't actually breakcore

after that, i don't know what happens, but i imagine that anybody whose taste is limited to what's popular on tiktok will choose to stay in the cave and enjoy this watered-down sound. but, those who are willing to take the pill and discover true breakcore will only discover joy and amazing drum grooves, and having more people aware of the sound will certainly be a good thing

has this actually happened yet? i'm not sure. anyone who's reading this, if you're one of them, tell us how you got from sewerslvt to venetian snares and discovered good music

I guess sorta with me, though I already knew about breakcore and discovered venetian snares when I heard about sewerslvt and it didn't quite scratch that itch I had

[tetraaugen]

At 7/19/23 05:51 PM, Leavesz wrote:I don't really care but I do get a little disappointed when I come across something that's tagged as breakcore and what I hear is just a 2 step drum loop on top of 5 different ambient pads with an awful anime sample absolutely drowned in reverb playing over everything else. Like I was expecting something like this, or this.

This also makes it kinda awkward to talk about breakcore with other people, cuz if they don't know what it is or they think it's "atmospheric jungle" I'll have to explain it to them and then I'll come across as a 'breakcore elitist' or 'gatekeeper', not to mention I'm terrible at explaining differences as confusing as breakcore and drill n' bass.

tl;dr: it's awkward.

Yeah, it makes discovering new breakcore artists harder in recent years whenever I feel like searching. A simple distinction I make with breakcore and jungle/dnb is that most breakcore drums sound like they're being chopped up and sometimes put in a blender, if explaining the difference is still hard (or, amen break on steroids)

[TheJayJay]

At 7/19/23 03:39 AM, tetraaugen wrote:I'm not that knowledgable on genres within breakcore, dnb, jungle, and the like (surprisingly), but I did get really confused listening to those newer "breakcore" mix videos and it didn't sound chaotic as I thought it would (or should). I even once saw a "soft breakcore" mix video and... ??? Breakcore is not really "soft" ?
What most people in recent years think is breakcore is actually jungle and dnb. Cool songs, but still not breakcore. I've taken this opportunity to get a better grasp on the differences and I just wanna say we have to make clear that most of it is (atmospheric) jungle :,)

I don't care

[NIFYX]

Breakcore references more the drum breaks. Often sampled and where other noise drops out or supplements the solo. It has roots in jazz solos, prior to the mashed techno loops.

DnB references the bass obvi. It doesn't need to have mutating drum phrases, which makes me think it's more like a constrained techno.

Jungle references a cacophony that should be layered with many sounds, which has reference to an environment where the sounds don't need to be related to each other, as more they add to varied ambience. It's got layers of rainforest canopies.