Tips for getting work?

[Willanatior]

Hey y'all,

This question goes out to any animator in NewGrounds who has found steady work or made a living out of animation.

[This is all stuff about me you can skip to get to the question]

I have been coming to NewGrounds since I was 8 years old. When I turned 12 and learned how people were making games and animations in NG it immediately caught my attention. I "bought" my first copy of Macromedia Flash 2004 and ever since then all I've done is learn as much as I can about animation, script writing, storyboarding, animatics, color theory even. I enrolled in SCAD for Animation until I got an understanding of how money works and realized I can't afford that. Graduated from a University in my home country of Puerto Rico with a bachelor's in Digital Animation. This university focused a lot more in 3D animation and Game Design; not what I wanted to do but was pressured to finish my bachelor's regardless. A bachelor's is just a piece of paper, I believe, and the true value of college comes from networking. In Puerto Rico I swear there are at most 20 2D animators, myself included; and none of them make a living from it, so networking in the 2D animation field was impossible.

I decided to move to Texas and started finding work in Sales. Sales is not my passion. So for a few years, while I was working in Sales, I would work on other projects in my free time: Drawing projects, video editing projects, animation projects etc. etc. all in the hopes of reaching some sort of notoriety online and finding someone looking for an animator. I got 8k+ followers on TikTok from some animations I made about Puerto Rico, but alas, no one in Puerto Rico is looking for an animator, much less one they have to pay.

I ended up opening an UpWork account to do freelance animation for anyone willing to pay and was approached by a small studio looking to start up a project. This was my first time ever doing animation for payment. It went great. They were happy with my work and I was happy working for them, but being a small project, it eventually came to an end. It helped me acquire SOME experience, but not the kind of experience I can see landing me a job in a studio.

In the past 2 months while seeking jobs in anything, I decided to create a short funny demo reel showing some old animations plus where my animation skills are right now:

(At the time of this forum post it's still Under Judgement. If it gets blammed I'll link the YouTube ig)

Now, I hope it doesn't look too unprofessional, but I really wanted to highlight the years of comedy timing experience and abilities in fields other than just drawing.

I've googled Animation jobs, Storyboarding jobs, Concept Art; just about anything and applied to them.

[Origin story complete. Questions start:]

If you have ever gotten a steady livable paycheck off animation:

-Where do you look for work?

-Where do you network to find work?

-What advice can you give to animators with no professional experience?

-What can I do RIGHT NOW to increase my chances to find paying work?

-Are you living off animation? How long have you lived off animation? How often do you have to find other work?

I can't think of too many more questions on the spot but I guess any and all tips and advice on how a 2D animator can find a job in this field or start a career out of it will be appreciated.

[Wandaboy]

[Riger44]

My guy, your stuff is nowhere near industry or even student-level. Look up reels to get a baseline for what gets in, prioritize getting your skill level up there first then worry about getting hired.

[jthrash]

At 7/23/24 06:40 PM, Riger44 wrote:My guy, your stuff is nowhere near industry or even student-level. Look up reels to get a baseline for what gets in, prioritize getting your skill level up there first then worry about getting hired.

Those are some absolutely stellar example reels you've shown, and the comments are pretty helpful, too--I should look into finding someone further along than me consistently critique my work. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the forums here alone that are more than willing to rip into--I mean, critique whatever people say they want comments and critiques on.

One thing I've learned after dabbling in practically every medium and style that catches my eye is that it helps to eventually specialize in one thing. We mortals don't get to live long enough to master everything, and it can take DECADES of our lives to get our skills to even an entry level in the industry, depending on how slowly we tend to learn and master specific skills and what advantages/disadvantages we have. There's a reason credit sequences are always so long after an animated episode or especially an animated movie, and I noticed that about 90% of what was shown in those reels were black-and-white pencil tests (albeit mind-blowing and smooth pencil tests), which were likely refined by a separate inking artist or 3 later on. Personally I'm finding myself gravitating exclusively to 3D character modeling, do you have any "3D/CG"-centric reels or portfolios you could show someone like me? ArtStation and occasionally the not-freaky side of DeviantArt were quick and easy ways to find out who I'm competing against, before both sides let AI-generated spam crowd out and discourage the actual professional artists...

[Willanatior]

At 7/23/24 11:04 PM, jthrash wrote:

At 7/23/24 06:40 PM, Riger44 wrote:My guy, your stuff is nowhere near industry or even student-level. Look up reels to get a baseline for what gets in, prioritize getting your skill level up there first then worry about getting hired.

Those are some absolutely stellar example reels you've shown, and the comments are pretty helpful, too--I should look into finding someone further along than me consistently critique my work. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the forums here alone that are more than willing to rip into--I mean, critique whatever people say they want comments and critiques on.

One thing I've learned after dabbling in practically every medium and style that catches my eye is that it helps to eventually specialize in one thing. We mortals don't get to live long enough to master everything, and it can take DECADES of our lives to get our skills to even an entry level in the industry, depending on how slowly we tend to learn and master specific skills and what advantages/disadvantages we have. There's a reason credit sequences are always so long after an animated episode or especially an animated movie, and I noticed that about 90% of what was shown in those reels were black-and-white pencil tests (albeit mind-blowing and smooth pencil tests), which were likely refined by a separate inking artist or 3 later on. Personally I'm finding myself gravitating exclusively to 3D character modeling, do you have any "3D/CG"-centric reels or portfolios you could show someone like me? ArtStation and occasionally the not-freaky side of DeviantArt were quick and easy ways to find out who I'm competing against, before both sides let AI-generated spam crowd out and discourage the actual professional artists...

I appreciate the feedback and follow up advice. From both, even if one worded it nicer.

Animation is a passion. One of many I have as you can see. A passion that stemmed from my desire to create sketches and comedy but never having a team or people to consistently work with. Animation showed me one person can do all the work, so I learned literally everything, thinking it would give me an edge when applying to places. I know my animation isn't the cleanest or industry level but I was never looking to work in Disney or Nickelodeon. That reel the first guy posted has amazing animation,fluid, detailed. I don't care for that animation. Is that the only job there is in frame by frame animation? I'm sure I'm not the only one, but sometimes I see animations that make it on TV or even animated music videos, even commercials that make me think "Dude, I may not be the best artist but I can do that. How did they land that job?!"

I got a freelance gig through UpWork a while back, they were very happy with my work, but even Freelance work is hard to come by online.

I know basic Maya/Blender; modeling, rigging, animating, lighting, compositions etc. etc. I'm not even bad at it but I never EVER liked the idea of sitting down to work on it on my free time how I do with 2D animation. It's literally the only work I see though.

Would your advice be: suck it up animate in 3d it's not that bad and Blender is free?

[Riger44]

At 7/23/24 11:04 PM, jthrash wrote:

At 7/23/24 06:40 PM, Riger44 wrote:My guy, your stuff is nowhere near industry or even student-level. Look up reels to get a baseline for what gets in, prioritize getting your skill level up there first then worry about getting hired.

Those are some absolutely stellar example reels you've shown, and the comments are pretty helpful, too--I should look into finding someone further along than me consistently critique my work. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the forums here alone that are more than willing to rip into--I mean, critique whatever people say they want comments and critiques on.

You should, better if you can find actual dedicated 3d communities. Forum here’s pretty dead and only see like one 3d thread lol. If you have money there’s also online courses that offer live feedback so worth checking out.

One thing I've learned after dabbling in practically every medium and style that catches my eye is that it helps to eventually specialize in one thing. We mortals don't get to live long enough to master everything, and it can take DECADES of our lives to get our skills to even an entry level in the industry, depending on how slowly we tend to learn and master specific skills and what advantages/disadvantages we have. There's a reason credit sequences are always so long after an animated episode or especially an animated movie, and I noticed that about 90% of what was shown in those reels were black-and-white pencil tests (albeit mind-blowing and smooth pencil tests), which were likely refined by a separate inking artist or 3 later on.

Yeah specializing is def the way to go, atleast its much more practical esp if you start late. Better chance to get hired at something you’re real good at than many things that’s mid.

Personally I'm finding myself gravitating exclusively to 3D character modeling, do you have any "3D/CG"-centric reels or portfolios you could show someone like me? ArtStation and occasionally the not-freaky side of DeviantArt were quick and easy ways to find out who I'm competing against, before both sides let AI-generated spam crowd out and discourage the actual professional artists...

Just search ‘-job title- reel/portfolio’ and play around with various keywords. Should lead to reels themselves or relevant forums. Check out Cara too since that’s like the new A(i)station.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy_RlyxcS2c

[Czyszy]

Well, your stuff is way better than whatever Bartosz Walaszek craps out. xD And Walaszek is an "industry" animator in my country, having worked as a music video animator, and created cartoons for TV stations.

This PoS right here, believe it or not, was commissioned by a TV station and it was aired on TV. Yes! Somebody paid actual money to get this crap made. xd

[jthrash]

At 7/25/24 08:37 PM, Czyszy wrote:Well, your stuff is way better than whatever Bartosz Walaszek craps out. xD And Walaszek is an "industry" animator in my country, having worked as a music video animator, and created cartoons for TV stations.

This PoS right here, believe it or not, was commissioned by a TV station and it was aired on TV. Yes! Somebody paid actual money to get this crap made. xd

Hey, there's an easy solution! Just move to a country where the standards of professional animation are a LOT lower than the standards in North America, Japan, UK or France!

[Czyszy]

At 7/25/24 09:07 PM, jthrash wrote:

At 7/25/24 08:37 PM, Czyszy wrote:Well, your stuff is way better than whatever Bartosz Walaszek craps out. xD And Walaszek is an "industry" animator in my country, having worked as a music video animator, and created cartoons for TV stations.

This PoS right here, believe it or not, was commissioned by a TV station and it was aired on TV. Yes! Somebody paid actual money to get this crap made. xd

Hey, there's an easy solution! Just move to a country where the standards of professional animation are a LOT lower than the standards in North America, Japan, UK or France!

That solution isn't as crazy as you might think. There was this French ragga rap band called Soundkaïl and they had a hit song, but they couldn't really stay relevant in France for very long after that. But around that time, Sokół, the manager of the "urban" record company Prosto noticed some potential in their unique style and invited Soundkaïl as guest performers on a Polish rap track. That kind of ragga/rap blend, while at that point nothing new in France, was something the Polish audience wasn't too familiar with. So the Polish track with Soundkaïl's special contribution was released and it soon became a hood classic. And those French one hit wonders would be considered fucking badass by the Polish crowd. So, Prosto decided to re-release Soundkaïl's debut album... and the re-issue sold way better in Poland than the album initlally did in France.

[jthrash]

You should, better if you can find actual dedicated 3d communities. Forum here’s pretty dead and only see like one 3d thread lol. If you have money there’s also online courses that offer live feedback so worth checking out.

I'm...already involved in a dedicated 3D community, Blenderartists.org. Maybe I should just show all my work-in-progress 3D stuff there. Probably my biggest pet peeve/first world problem growing up as an artist among people who didn't even understand how to draw a stick figure, was that I only got compliments when I specifically demanded critiques on ways to improve:

"Hi, I just made this comic, can you give me some tips on how to improve it before I upload it online?"

"Ooooh, wow, that's like, PROFESSIONAL!! I can't even draw a straight line..."

"Thank you, but I'm asking for feedback, what's good, what do I need to improve upon, re-do..."

"I'm not a professional..."

"That's okay. I'm looking for a layman audience's perspective. Like, you've seen Pixar movies, you know what a good 'cartoon' style looks like..."

"Oh, Pixar! They do, like, the claymations, right? With the funny yellow guys who sing about bananas?"

"..."

I'm sure it wouldn't be as ridiculous as that example if I asked 2D artists on NG for critiques, they would at least be able to see my stuff from the perspective of a talented 2D animator. But still, it's pretty obvious from the name that I would get Blender 3D-specific critiques on Blenderartists. Thanks for the reminder to use one of my other accounts besides Newgrounds.

Yeah specializing is def the way to go, atleast its much more practical esp if you start late. Better chance to get hired at something you’re real good at than many things that’s mid.

"Dipping my finger in all the pies" was perfectly fine when I was a teenager, but at almost 30 it's probably finally time to pick ONE thing to actually be more than "mid" at, if I ever want to so much as work for an animated commercial on the local access TV channel before I have to endure ageist attacks from my co-workers and they ask me to step down because of my age or something, regardless of the quality of my work. On the other hand, I think Hayao Miyazaki was pushing 50 before directing his first movie, but still, imagine if I used the 19 years between my current age and when I become 48 to really master one (maybe two) aspects of the CG animation pipeline. I've kind of picked 3D modeling for now because I've been lucky enough to find phone apps that let me practice 3D modeling on the go, while also being similar enough to the Maya-esque UI I've set up in Blender (technically a "fork" of Blender called BforArtists) that it's not too much of a hassle to switch between modeling on my phone apps during the workweek and modeling in BforArtists during my days off. As a result, I can practice that particular skill every single day for at least an hour.

[jthrash]

At 7/25/24 09:19 PM, Czyszy wrote:

At 7/25/24 09:07 PM, jthrash wrote:

At 7/25/24 08:37 PM, Czyszy wrote:Well, your stuff is way better than whatever Bartosz Walaszek craps out. xD And Walaszek is an "industry" animator in my country, having worked as a music video animator, and created cartoons for TV stations.

This PoS right here, believe it or not, was commissioned by a TV station and it was aired on TV. Yes! Somebody paid actual money to get this crap made. xd

Hey, there's an easy solution! Just move to a country where the standards of professional animation are a LOT lower than the standards in North America, Japan, UK or France!

That solution isn't as crazy as you might think. There was this French ragga rap band called Soundkaïl and they had a hit song, but they couldn't really stay relevant in France for very long after that. But around that time, Sokół, the manager of the "urban" record company Prosto noticed some potential in their unique style and invited Soundkaïl as guest performers on a Polish rap track. That kind of ragga/rap blend, while at that point nothing new in France, was something the Polish audience wasn't too familiar with. So the Polish track with Soundkaïl's special contribution was released and it soon became a hood classic. And those French one hit wonders would be considered fucking badass by the Polish crowd. So, Prosto decided to re-release Soundkaïl's debut album... and the re-issue sold way better in Poland than the album initlally did in France.

Weird!

I like playing challenging Soulslikes and 3D platformers, so it's not too much of a stretch for me to also take the "hard" route in my real life of continuing to try to break into the North American animation industry and "git gud."

[jthrash]

I appreciate the feedback and follow up advice. From both, even if one worded it nicer.

I'm assuming mine is the "nicer" comment, but I should tell you from my own experience that you're going to get exclusively meaner, almost troll-like comments from your superiors in an actual work setting. You need a thick skin for an industry this cut-throat.

Animation is a passion. One of many I have as you can see. A passion that stemmed from my desire to create sketches and comedy but never having a team or people to consistently work with. Animation showed me one person can do all the work, so I learned literally everything, thinking it would give me an edge when applying to places. I know my animation isn't the cleanest or industry level but I was never looking to work in Disney or Nickelodeon. That reel the first guy posted has amazing animation,fluid, detailed. I don't care for that animation. Is that the only job there is in frame by frame animation? I'm sure I'm not the only one, but sometimes I see animations that make it on TV or even animated music videos, even commercials that make me think "Dude, I may not be the best artist but I can do that. How did they land that job?!"

I can only speak for Hollywood and the western animation industry specifically, but that is one of the harsh truths about this industry--it really is quite nepotistic and, unless your parents are old-school Hollywood legends that are frequently introducing you to their famous friends in Malibu, you will have to work far, far harder to get your skills well above the level of the "nepo-babies" currently destroying the Star Wars and MCU franchises, among other things. I suppose I've worked around this a bit by attending in-person industry networking events such as CTN, Comic-Con and Lightbox Expo and showing my current portfolio, but I need to work on my own skills for a few years before I feel comfortable showing my face in those places again. Another reason specializing is so important in this field is so you can make sure you show your work to the correct potential mentors and critics. I made the mistake of showing an animation-centric portfolio to a professional VFX compositor and all she could really say was "I like the colors, maybe, uh, increase the contrast between the lights and shadows?" I should have shown it to a professional animation specialist instead so I could get more targeted critiques on the movement, timing, and other Animation Principles, but that was my first convention and I was basically flying blind at that point (not even aware yet of how helpful free YouTube tutorials could potentially be).

I got a freelance gig through UpWork a while back, they were very happy with my work, but even Freelance work is hard to come by online.

I got plenty of freelance work during the COVID lockdowns, and all of my clients were happy with my work, too, but it seems the online opportunities dried up once we all started returning to working in-person at an office or other physical workplaces again. I think I made a grand total of $250 after spending 2 years of my life on some online strangers' ambitious animation projects, and of course had to juggle a full-time day job so that I could make actual money to pay the bills. If you ever decide to go the freelance route again, maybe it would be more cost-effective and less time-consuming to specialize in illustration--you know, telling an entire story in a single PNG image, rather than spending years on a single animation that may or may not give you enough money for the next Steam Summer Sale?

I know basic Maya/Blender; modeling, rigging, animating, lighting, compositions etc. etc. I'm not even bad at it but I never EVER liked the idea of sitting down to work on it on my free time how I do with 2D animation. It's literally the only work I see though.

Would your advice be: suck it up animate in 3d it's not that bad and Blender is free?

The animation industry is in such flux right now, even without taking into account the threat of AI potentially (and already) taking the entry-level jobs, that 3D animation skills aren't quite the safe bet they were back when Disney and Dreamworks shuttered their hand-drawn animation divisions. I simply suggest for now that you specialize in whatever part of the animation pipeline brings you the most joy, and something that you can feasibly practice every single day, even before or after a long workday at your day job.

There is a style of animation that's basically in-between simple-but-time-consuming frame by frame animation, and complicated-and-also-time-consuming 3D animation--making 2D puppet rigs in software like Toon Boom Harmony, Moho Studio or Flash/Adobe Animate. That's how many modern shows ranging from Bluey to Rick and Morty to even The CupHead Show! are animated these days.

[Czyszy]

I think the most realistic plan IMO would be to quit dreaming about working in the industry, get to work, create an indie animation series making sure you're putting out your 100% and getting people hooked on your style, and then start a Patreon. A lot of artists go that route now. It wouldn't hurt to try.

[jthrash]

At 7/25/24 10:32 PM, Czyszy wrote:I think the most realistic plan IMO would be to quit dreaming about working in the industry, get to work, create an indie animation series making sure you're putting out your 100% and getting people hooked on your style, and then start a Patreon. A lot of artists go that route now. It wouldn't hurt to try.

^^This. It's not the 20th century anymore where you have to wait until you get a job in the industry before you can make at least short cartoons. Find some FOSS software like Blender or OpenToonz, whatever suits your needs at the moment, make stuff until it stops looking like it was made by a complete beginner, and make your dream series as an indie animation. It's about the journey, not the destination. If major studios start talking to you about turning your indie works into a proper TV series or something, that's fantastic, but if not, at least you have something to show to others on NG and YouTube.

[Wandaboy]

ooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Czyszy]

Well, if you get to accept the status quo after you've been hit hard by reality, it's a step in the right direction. You feel disillusioned at first, but if you're truly passionate about your craft, you're gonna keep doing it, only this time not to get big, but to realize your creative vision.

[Narratorway]

I love how every response that even pretends to answer these incredibly straight forward questions automatically presumes he's asking how to get into the 'industry' and each one of you is clambering over yourselves to keep that gate!

Artists: We support other artists, unless they want support.

[Czyszy]

At 7/26/24 01:29 AM, Narratorway wrote:I love how every response that even pretends to answer these incredibly straight forward questions automatically presumes he's asking how to get into the 'industry' and each one of you is clambering over yourselves to keep that gate!

Artists: We support other artists, unless they want support.

Well, I don't think ordinary amateur NGers who never worked for big companies are able to give definitive answers. I can speak for myself and I can say that I'm trying my best to help out as much as I can! If you, @Narratorway can answer those straightforward questions, go ahead.

Even though I can't answer those industry job related questons, I'm still trying to give some general advice as a friend. I don't think there's anything wrong with it?

[Narratorway]

At 7/26/24 01:37 AM, Czyszy wrote:Well, I don't think ordinary amateur NGers who never worked for big companies are able to give definitive answers. I can speak for myself and I can say that I'm trying my best to help out as much as I can! If you, @Narratorway can answer those straightforward questions, go ahead.

I don't know why you highlighted 'straighforward' as if to imply they're not? What about them is ambiguous to you? And again, what is with the 'big companies' nonsense? He never mentions anything like that! Y'all literally building up the gates outta thin air!

But fair enough, here's my answers:

At 7/20/24 04:43 PM, Willanatior wrote:-Where do you look for work?

I didn't. If I remember correctly, I was suggested it by the guy I was working an unpaid internship for, which I'd gotten through the school I went to to learn animation.

At 7/20/24 04:43 PM, Willanatior wrote:-Where do you network to find work?

As I said, through my school and applying on whatever animation job boards I could find online. That was then. Now, I shill on twitter and here for my patreon/subscribestar and ko-fi. ;)

At 7/20/24 04:43 PM, Willanatior wrote:-What advice can you give to animators with no professional experience?

-What can I do RIGHT NOW to increase my chances to find paying work?

For both questions: Network. Build your list of contacts and keep records of them. Yeah, increase your skills and all that, but if you love animating, that'll happen regardless. Squeeze your connections as much as you can, even if they're not directly connected to what yer looking for. You said you were in sales. If you know anyone in that industry, you might know someone who has a connection to marketing/advertising firms as an example. You said you got paid work, keep the clients contact info. References matter.

-Are you living off animation? How long have you lived off animation? How often do you have to find other work?

Nope! My career ended before it started entirely because I didn't understand the importance of networking. After my job doing the veggietales stuff ended, I couldn't get work anywhere else both because I was a dumb kid that didn't understand how references worked and also I was too poor to risk moving to where a lot of the job opportunities were w/o an actual guaranteed contract signed.

[Skoops]

At 7/20/24 04:43 PM, Willanatior wrote:-Where do you look for work?

I used to on Artstation, though those are pretty competitive positions.

-Where do you network to find work?

Collabs, game jams, conventions, stuff like that. Going in too thirsty never works; people can smell desperation. Be a cool person that incidentally can get the job done, and you'll be remembered fondly. Not everyone has a job lined up for you, so be likeable first and only mention that you're looking for work after you pass the vibe check.

-What advice can you give to animators with no professional experience?

Act like you have a job already. Give yourself projects with deadlines, keep a schedule, and hold yourself to a professional standard. The only way you can convince people that you can get shit done is to get shit done.

-What can I do RIGHT NOW to increase my chances to find paying work?

Same as the last answer. Nobody hires based on who MIGHT be good SOMEDAY, they need someone who IS good NOW. Way too many aspiring artists, animators and so on think that a company is gonna swoop in and pay them to learn the tricks of the trade from scratch. They won't. You have to come to them knowing what the job is and how to do it at a professional level before they'll pay you to do it.

-Are you living off animation? How long have you lived off animation? How often do you have to find other work?

I'm a full-time artist at an indie studio, so animation is part of it. It always took me a stoopid amount of time to find good studio jobs, but freelance/contract work comes relatively easy. Haven't worked a non-art job in several years, since once you're in the industry, it's easier to stay in.

I can't think of too many more questions on the spot but I guess any and all tips and advice on how a 2D animator can find a job in this field or start a career out of it will be appreciated.

Learn what the entry level positions are, and tailor your portfolio/reel for that. Don't sell yourself as a jack of all trades, focus on one actual job type that exists, learn what they need, and just provide that. What's most important is getting in. Make sacrifices, do things that you think are boring if they're in high demand, remember that you'll be working for someone else's project, not whatever you want to do most. You can branch out to new things after your foot is in the door.

Lastly, and most importantly, if you don't have solid fundamentals (perspective, light theory, etc.) your odds are essentially zero. It's a non-negotiable baseline for 99.9% of professional work. Do not act on any of the above advice if your foundation isn't rock solid.

[Willanatior]

At 7/25/24 10:18 PM, jthrash wrote:

I appreciate the feedback and follow up advice. From both, even if one worded it nicer.

I'm assuming mine is the "nicer" comment, but I should tell you from my own experience that you're going to get exclusively meaner, almost troll-like comments from your superiors in an actual work setting. You need a thick skin for an industry this cut-throat.

Animation is a passion. One of many I have as you can see. A passion that stemmed from my desire to create sketches and comedy but never having a team or people to consistently work with. Animation showed me one person can do all the work, so I learned literally everything, thinking it would give me an edge when applying to places. I know my animation isn't the cleanest or industry level but I was never looking to work in Disney or Nickelodeon. That reel the first guy posted has amazing animation,fluid, detailed. I don't care for that animation. Is that the only job there is in frame by frame animation? I'm sure I'm not the only one, but sometimes I see animations that make it on TV or even animated music videos, even commercials that make me think "Dude, I may not be the best artist but I can do that. How did they land that job?!"

I can only speak for Hollywood and the western animation industry specifically, but that is one of the harsh truths about this industry--it really is quite nepotistic and, unless your parents are old-school Hollywood legends that are frequently introducing you to their famous friends in Malibu, you will have to work far, far harder to get your skills well above the level of the "nepo-babies" currently destroying the Star Wars and MCU franchises, among other things. I suppose I've worked around this a bit by attending in-person industry networking events such as CTN, Comic-Con and Lightbox Expo and showing my current portfolio, but I need to work on my own skills for a few years before I feel comfortable showing my face in those places again. Another reason specializing is so important in this field is so you can make sure you show your work to the correct potential mentors and critics. I made the mistake of showing an animation-centric portfolio to a professional VFX compositor and all she could really say was "I like the colors, maybe, uh, increase the contrast between the lights and shadows?" I should have shown it to a professional animation specialist instead so I could get more targeted critiques on the movement, timing, and other Animation Principles, but that was my first convention and I was basically flying blind at that point (not even aware yet of how helpful free YouTube tutorials could potentially be).

I got a freelance gig through UpWork a while back, they were very happy with my work, but even Freelance work is hard to come by online.

I got plenty of freelance work during the COVID lockdowns, and all of my clients were happy with my work, too, but it seems the online opportunities dried up once we all started returning to working in-person at an office or other physical workplaces again. I think I made a grand total of $250 after spending 2 years of my life on some online strangers' ambitious animation projects, and of course had to juggle a full-time day job so that I could make actual money to pay the bills. If you ever decide to go the freelance route again, maybe it would be more cost-effective and less time-consuming to specialize in illustration--you know, telling an entire story in a single PNG image, rather than spending years on a single animation that may or may not give you enough money for the next Steam Summer Sale?

I know basic Maya/Blender; modeling, rigging, animating, lighting, compositions etc. etc. I'm not even bad at it but I never EVER liked the idea of sitting down to work on it on my free time how I do with 2D animation. It's literally the only work I see though.

Would your advice be: suck it up animate in 3d it's not that bad and Blender is free?

The animation industry is in such flux right now, even without taking into account the threat of AI potentially (and already) taking the entry-level jobs, that 3D animation skills aren't quite the safe bet they were back when Disney and Dreamworks shuttered their hand-drawn animation divisions. I simply suggest for now that you specialize in whatever part of the animation pipeline brings you the most joy, and something that you can feasibly practice every single day, even before or after a long workday at your day job.

There is a style of animation that's basically in-between simple-but-time-consuming frame by frame animation, and complicated-and-also-time-consuming 3D animation--making 2D puppet rigs in software like Toon Boom Harmony, Moho Studio or Flash/Adobe Animate. That's how many modern shows ranging from Bluey to Rick and Morty to even The CupHead Show! are animated these days.

Thank you so much for your reply. I figured a lot of the animation I see on TV had to do with either Nepotism or someone who was already in the industry. Like you said, easier to stay in once you're there. You gave a lot of really good advice there.

At 7/25/24 10:32 PM, Czyszy wrote:I think the most realistic plan IMO would be to quit dreaming about working in the industry, get to work, create an indie animation series making sure you're putting out your 100% and getting people hooked on your style, and then start a Patreon. A lot of artists go that route now. It wouldn't hurt to try.

Harsh, but fair. I have thought about this a lot. A lot. Newgrounds was where I first saw people like LazyMuffin and Sick Animation make their start and now their living. It's a risk but ultimately anything involving something you love is. Thank you for your replies.

At 7/26/24 12:24 AM, Czyszy wrote:Well, if you get to accept the status quo after you've been hit hard by reality, it's a step in the right direction. You feel disillusioned at first, but if you're truly passionate about your craft, you're gonna keep doing it, only this time not to get big, but to realize your creative vision.

This is probably the wisest thing I've heard someone say in a while.

At 7/26/24 01:29 AM, Narratorway wrote:I love how every response that even pretends to answer these incredibly straight forward questions automatically presumes he's asking how to get into the 'industry' and each one of you is clambering over yourselves to keep that gate!

Artists: We support other artists, unless they want support.

You know, I'm kind of used to it being a NG user since 2003 but it did catch me off guard

The last two posts by yourself and Skoops really made my day, though. I love to see there are people living off their passion and are able to share their wisdom forward. I learned a lot today. I don't think I will give up on my dreams to make animation one of my main sources of income, but I do have to change my perspective with it, understand no one is coming to offer me a job just because I know some principles of animation, the industry is in a flux and competitive, and if you're not top 10 at ONE thing you might not even get that job. Entry jobs like storyboarding and clean up are becoming automated so good luck entering there. If I'm going to make anything out of animation it has to come from myself.

So, if anyone is still here and read all that and are ready for a follow up question, specifically to those of you with Patreons and a following:

-What was your plan? How did you go into it and when did it pick up?

- I have 8.5k followers on TikTok. Mostly Spanish speakers who followed me because I made fun of our home country. I want to capitalize on that but can't really come up with something to do on TikTok live. I was thinking drawing live for donations?

-Honestly any advice in making some money from your own art is welcomed and highly appreciated! I tried it last year, sold a few hand drawn digital paintings and some Redbubble art but nothing that could even pay my steam summer sale 😂

[ZombieGhost]

To be honest. Go in art college, learn and etc.

[Willanatior]

At 7/26/24 04:47 PM, ZombieGhost wrote:To be honest. Go in art college, learn and etc.

Thanks for the reply. I did tell people to skip my life story but I did mention: I do have a bachelor's degree in "Science of Digital Animation"

[jthrash]

At 7/26/24 04:47 PM, ZombieGhost wrote:To be honest. Go in art college, learn and etc.

As someone who did go into art college myself, I wish it were that simple. It's important to remember when choosing art colleges to pick one that is actually going to help you along with your career (particularly when it comes to networking, ideally giving you a way to benefit a bit from industry nepotism, as well) and is not just taking your money while teaching you rudimentary stuff you could learn for free on YouTube nowadays. I have fond memories of my own art college experience, but it did shut down suspiciously soon, right after I graduated and was promised post-graduation help in getting my foot in the door at one of the local studios (most likely Blizzard in Irvine--make of that what you will). Apparently it was such a scam that the current Biden administration literally bailed me out of remaining student loan payments because my school apparently lied about its credentials when they first recruited people like me into the school.

Of course, that may depend on where you live. In the US, you have to be SUPER careful which school you pick since tuition for a full college experience is oftentimes outrageous, and of course you can't expect US Presidents to bail you out of the inflated student loans all the time (and that's assuming they side with you and not the university in the first place), I just got incredibly lucky this past year. But I've heard of places in Europe where you don't have to pay nearly as much for higher education, if at all, and of course it's less of a risk to try any art school that works for you in such countries.

Even if you do pick a good art school that actually helps you get your first job, simply passing college courses isn't enough for an industry this competitive. Recruiters don't like seeing portfolios just of student work (especially the cliche bouncing ball and flour sack animation exercises), they want to see, at an absolute minimum, that you have the work ethic to apply your newfound animation skills in personal projects outside of classes and the ability to come up with ideas yourself (even if you're unlikely to have that privilege while working for other directors). It's not hard to pass these college courses and get a Diploma, but it's usually the best of the best and lifelong learners that have any hope of getting their first job in this hugely-talented field. Most importantly, and this is where I've been told even the best, most ethical art colleges fail to teach their students: Figure out your specialization as early as possible, since you will unlikely live long enough to master ALL the jobs in the animation pipeline. As has been already stated here, be the best at one thing rather than a jack-of-all-trades: good at everything, great at nothing, especially if you're in a rush to get your first job and/or freelance gig (after which point getting future work is often get easier, not harder, or so I have been told).

[ZombieGhost]

At 7/26/24 08:48 PM, jthrash wrote:

At 7/26/24 04:47 PM, ZombieGhost wrote:To be honest. Go in art college, learn and etc.

As someone who did go into art college myself, I wish it were that simple. It's important to remember when choosing art colleges to pick one that is actually going to help you along with your career (particularly when it comes to networking, ideally giving you a way to benefit a bit from industry nepotism, as well) and is not just taking your money while teaching you rudimentary stuff you could learn for free on YouTube nowadays. I have fond memories of my own art college experience, but it did shut down suspiciously soon, right after I graduated and was promised post-graduation help in getting my foot in the door at one of the local studios (most likely Blizzard in Irvine--make of that what you will). Apparently it was such a scam that the current Biden administration literally bailed me out of remaining student loan payments because my school apparently lied about its credentials when they first recruited people like me into the school.

Of course, that may depend on where you live. In the US, you have to be SUPER careful which school you pick since tuition for a full college experience is oftentimes outrageous, and of course you can't expect US Presidents to bail you out of the inflated student loans all the time (and that's assuming they side with you and not the university in the first place), I just got incredibly lucky this past year. But I've heard of places in Europe where you don't have to pay nearly as much for higher education, if at all, and of course it's less of a risk to try any art school that works for you in such countries.

Even if you do pick a good art school that actually helps you get your first job, simply passing college courses isn't enough for an industry this competitive. Recruiters don't like seeing portfolios just of student work (especially the cliche bouncing ball and flour sack animation exercises), they want to see, at an absolute minimum, that you have the work ethic to apply your newfound animation skills in personal projects outside of classes and the ability to come up with ideas yourself (even if you're unlikely to have that privilege while working for other directors). It's not hard to pass these college courses and get a Diploma, but it's usually the best of the best and lifelong learners that have any hope of getting their first job in this hugely-talented field. Most importantly, and this is where I've been told even the best, most ethical art colleges fail to teach their students: Figure out your specialization as early as possible, since you will unlikely live long enough to master ALL the jobs in the animation pipeline. As has been already stated here, be the best at one thing rather than a jack-of-all-trades: good at everything, great at nothing, especially if you're in a rush to get your first job and/or freelance gig (after which point getting future work is often get easier, not harder, or so I have been told).

Mmh, so you are saying like.

Go pick a book that teach you the basic

and learn on your own?

[jthrash]

Mmh, so you are saying like.
Go pick a book that teach you the basic
and learn on your own?

I'm saying you need to be just as creative in your search for your first animation job as you are creative in your actual animations, especially if you don't have structural advantages like going to an art college that will actually help you get that job, even after you graduate, or industry-specific nepotism.

That said, animators have long been blessed with a comprehensive masterpiece called The Animator's Survival Kit, from the late Richard Williams (Who Framed Roger Rabbit, The Thief and the Cobbler, Dear Basketball, etc). It really focuses on the fundamentals, or "fundies" as @Skoops likes to call them, and as a result, it is a timeless tome that applies to all current forms of animation--frame by frame, 2D puppet rig, cut-out animation, CG/3D, stop-motion, claymation, etc.

There are some extremely minor things I disagree with, like whether to listen to music when drawing the boring in-between frames in frame by frame animation, after figuring out the key frames and breakdown poses, but that's it, it truly is required reading for anyone who even wants to review and critique animation, and especially for people who want to animate themselves. Of course, all the knowledge in this book won't mean anything unless you actually make something of your own afterwards and share it online to get more specific critiques on how you can improve.

[Willanatior]

At 7/27/24 12:13 PM, jthrash wrote:

Mmh, so you are saying like.
Go pick a book that teach you the basic
and learn on your own?

I'm saying you need to be just as creative in your search for your first animation job as you are creative in your actual animations, especially if you don't have structural advantages like going to an art college that will actually help you get that job, even after you graduate, or industry-specific nepotism.

That said, animators have long been blessed with a comprehensive masterpiece called The Animator's Survival Kit, from the late Richard Williams (Who Framed Roger Rabbit, The Thief and the Cobbler, Dear Basketball, etc). It really focuses on the fundamentals, or "fundies" as @Skoops likes to call them, and as a result, it is a timeless tome that applies to all current forms of animation--frame by frame, 2D puppet rig, cut-out animation, CG/3D, stop-motion, claymation, etc.

There are some extremely minor things I disagree with, like whether to listen to music when drawing the boring in-between frames in frame by frame animation, after figuring out the key frames and breakdown poses, but that's it, it truly is required reading for anyone who even wants to review and critique animation, and especially for people who want to animate themselves. Of course, all the knowledge in this book won't mean anything unless you actually make something of your own afterwards and share it online to get more specific critiques on how you can improve.

I love your replies. You're very honest with your experience, especially with college. I have The Animators Survival Kit in video with Richard himself giving the class. It's interesting and I've learned a lot. But the thing that stuck out the most about what you said is being as creative looking for a job as you are with your own work. Applying for jobs in this field is not like applying to most office jobs and it's very unlikely they'll even look at your resume or demo reel unless it was handed to them by someone they know.

This whole thread has been very eye opening for sure. Like I mentioned, it hasn't killed my dream or desire, it's just making me think different about my approach.

[jthrash]

This whole thread has been very eye opening for sure. Like I mentioned, it hasn't killed my dream or desire, it's just making me think different about my approach.

Well, think of it this way, your best days as an artist are ahead of you--WAY ahead of you. I was watching the Olympics a bit yesterday and was struck by how, in the field of most sports, you peak in your mid-20's (around 25) and you're basically "old" and should consider retiring from professional sports long before you're even 30. Take comfort in the fact your artistic "peak" will most likely come in your 50s or even 60s, as opposed to your teens and 20s.